For any of you that care about this issue, this is pretty unnerving stuff. You owe it to yourself to watch the whole video before you decide if this is a big deal or not.
For any of you that care about this issue, this is pretty unnerving stuff. You owe it to yourself to watch the whole video before you decide if this is a big deal or not.
58 Comments
jimiyo said about 1 month ago
hey SN, been a while since ive seen you around. :) hello!
Tender Branson said about 1 month ago
Ok wait. Did she say she worked there? Because if so, and she cares so much, why does she seem to be acting, sound fake and seemingly have no regrets about working there?
FunForAllKids said about 1 month ago
This and much worse happens to millions of factory farmed baby chicks each year but its goes unnoticed unless you care about animal rights. Meaning they’re thrown in a garabage can and left to die, not they’re aborted. I doubt this happens often if at all.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
Jimiyo, I still haven’t forgotten about you and the XL Koi I promised you! I’m going to be sending that your way very soon. You are the man.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
I think that Animals have rights, and I most definitely do not think that animals have the same rights as human beings. Abortion of living children and the deaths of baby chicks are totally and completely not the same things.
Chapter12 said about 1 month ago
Nate I can honestly say I haven’t given a shit about abortion until just now. Pro life fo' life. I’m proud to be a republican.
godsloadedsociety said about 1 month ago
fuck, there’s so much i would like to say about this that it’s best i don’t say it at all.
let’s just say that if religion is brought into this, we all can go to hell.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
Dude, you need to keep this comment up, this site is an eye opener in a time when it’s important for people to open their eyes.
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
That’s bunk.
Do some research.
Here’s a good website for this particular issue:
http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm#partialbirth
You should change the title of this thread, because it is inaccurate.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
"Some will cite Senator Obama’s ‘present’ votes on Illinois Senate Bills SB203, SB 1093, SB 1094, SB 1095 as evidence of support for partial-birth abortion. [4] However, Sen. Obama did not believe the legislation would pass constitutional muster. He has supported legislation which bans partial birth abortion as long is there is an exception for the health of the mother."
Instead of voting for a bill and not believing the legislation would pass constitutional muster, why not just not vote for it in the first place? Doesn’t seem consistent.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
I also changed the title. Not because I do not support this thread, but because I agree that the title should express that I have only voiced my opinion.
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
A "Present" vote means that he didn’t vote for it.
cyanide said about 1 month ago
Actually it is the same. Disregard for life. Feeling you or your species is more superior thus might over right is okay. In the end we are all just animals. In nature animals kill/eat their own kind, why the double standards?
Anyways Obombya is a douche. Theres no change, just a change of the face. Hey lets bomb iran, send troops to pakistan/afghanistan, and if you get pregnant well we call that "punishment." We can suck that sucker right out of ya or better yet, leave it for dead when its alive. Oh and btw, all young people should go join the army but not my daughters.
VOTE 3RD PARTY. i mean really at the end of the day all that matters is who counts the votes but still. At least show your country you arent a sheep.
DrewGliever said about 1 month ago
why do people argue about this shit?
face it - more than likely, the fact is that both of you have no idea about anything to do with politics!
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
Maybe you’ve missed some of my other posts.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
"Present" doesn’t mean you didn’t vote for it, it means you didn’t vote. If you don’t support it, why not just vote against it?
Eternyl said about 1 month ago
politics matter very little.....
those who control the money, make the rules....and they pick the faces to send to lead us.
the media could hype up anyone...and the population would eat it up.
oh look... they just took another 850 billion, free and clear....and it’s all going to overseas investors.
-this is America, land of the free ...seriously a 2 party system....I wonder why that is so.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
I may not know everything, but I know where I stand on things. If I don’t stand up for the things I believe in, I feel my integrity is compromised. People don’t have to read or comment on this thread. I know that this thread is going to upset some people. This isn’t a personal attack against anyone here or their beliefs. The fact is, we as the American people have been commissioned to hire the most powerful man in the world, and I take that pretty seriously.
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
"Present" means that he didn’t vote for it.
A "Vote" is a formal indication of a choice.
If he didn’t give a formal indication of choice, how is what I said any different - and why are you nitpicking?
As far as voting "Present" on a ridiculous bill: Illinois legislators often vote "present" and for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes blocs of lawmakers do it as a protest in some dispute over rules and procedures. Obama was often joined in his "present" votes by 10 or 20 other senators.
In other cases, lawmakers do it to signal objections to the details of a measure that they support in principle. They also use "present" votes as strategic moves to defeat legislation.
It isn’t uncommon - and voting "Present" indicates that the bill is so ridiculous or horrible it isn’t even worthy of a vote.
Republicans twisting facts again - great job!
DrewGliever said about 1 month ago
in my class last semester - Principles of American Constitutional Government, our professor [a former lobbyist] told us that USUALLY the reason that someone would vote 'present' on a bill or form would be to vote against it without tarnishing a reputation.. but that’s just one thought.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
"Great Job" - obviously condescending towards me. I don’t get why you have to attack us personally, you can voice your opinion and call it good, you don’t need to add in your personal attacks.
You are correct, there are a number of reasons and strategies for using the "present" vote. One of them is to avoid giving a direct response. It can be used as a "no comment" vote if you will. I’m sure that he was joined by other senators that didn’t want to directly support, or not support the bill because of it’s controversial nature. The truth is, voting "present" is not the same as not voting for a bill as I stated earlier.
"In the end, Mr. Obama chose neither to vote for nor against the bill. He voted “present,” effectively sidestepping the issue, an option he invoked nearly 130 times as a state senator."
source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20cnd-obama.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
I am not using the quote out of context, I am using it as an example of a reputable publication stating the facts that a "present" vote is the same as "side stepping" the issue. If you don’t agree with something, vote against it, don’t side step the issue. Is he not proud of his opinions? Why not then just openly oppose it?
Buck Nasty said about 1 month ago
+1,000 then add in the fact that the two party system is really a one party system but at least they give us the facade of having some type of choice. The two parties are the same, the corporate party.
At least other countries get 3-5 major parties to choose from. :(
jaynajaynajayna said about 1 month ago
"Some will cite Senator Obama’s ‘present’ votes on Illinois Senate Bills SB203, SB 1093, SB 1094, SB 1095 as evidence of support for partial-birth abortion. [4] However, Sen. Obama did not believe the legislation would pass constitutional muster. He has supported legislation which bans partial birth abortion as long is there is an exception for the health of the mother."
Wouldn’t that be his reasoning for voting present...directly from him? That’s exactly what Jimmy was saying about any flaws in the bill/procedural disagreements, etc.
And I’m just wondering - not asking to personally attack you - (Nate) are you pro life? I’m very thoroughly pro-choice but opposed to late term a bombs.... that’s bad.
Jon Kruse said about 1 month ago
It’s either Pro Life or Pro Choice. Someone should come out and say they’re Pro Abortion.
jaynajaynajayna said about 1 month ago
what in the heck do you mean by that
darianhrtwl said about 1 month ago
has anyone checked the stats?
abortion rates have been steadily dropping since the 80s.
mitchbones said about 1 month ago
Awesome contribution to the thread Drew!!! /sarcasm
Nate, I can’t speak for Jimmy, but the way I interpreted the "Great Job!" was directed towards the propaganda video you posted. The GOP is notorious for Spinning things extremely, though thats not to say the Dems do it also, the GOP just spins at hard as a dreidel on Hanukkah to rile up their party.
I understand that the issue of abortion is a hot topic on both sides, but that video is way too sensationalist for me to take it seriously. I’m not lying when I say that I rolled my eyes at the very end where they leave the baby. If that woman was disgusted by the hospital’s practices that much FUCKING QUIT. Honestly, Religion plays way too much in this issue.
Does anyone know how many partial births are done per year in USA?
Thats actually really suprising, considering your party doesn’t stick what it used to be for. Small Gov, More Rights, Lower Taxes. Oh Hey McCain and Bush!
Master_Control said about 1 month ago
We’re all beings on the same earth. No being is greater than the other. ALL beings should be given the same rights and the same opportunities live happily and thrive. Specism pisses me off. No human can understand what goes on inside a non human animals head. You don’t know their values or their morals; their emotions, fears, etc.
Yeah, scientists have done tons of tests (a majority of them completely unnecessary), but that’s human science, we can’t possibly stand another speices. We have enough trouble understanding our own species.
Buck Nasty said about 1 month ago
I agree let’s give cockroaches the right to vote and to bear arms!
BuchananDesigns said about 1 month ago
WORD.
And I hate it when people argue about abortion. Abortion will never be 'illegal'. No one is telling you to abort your baby. So, I don’t see what the big deal is.
forloveofOCTOBER said about 1 month ago
keep this shit (the video) off of emptees
mitchbones said about 1 month ago
Natural Selection proves otherwise.
Though, I think as a very developed and intellegent species it is up to us to try to keep things as balanced as possible as we grow expenintally and wreck havoc on the planet. It is ignorant to think that other species can’t feel pain.
darianhrtwl said about 1 month ago
Maybe its only the RIGHT to choose abortion that’s being advocated.
I mean honestly, no one is promoting fetal destruction here. Creating legislation that tells someone what they can or cannot do would be unconstitutional (look at the gay marriage issue).
and like I mentioned before, abortion rates are declining so this shouldn’t even be being used.
In my opinion, using such a contraversial and touchy topic through that kind of medium as propaganda to persuade is just as immoral.
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
"Creating legislation that tells someone what they can or cannot do would be unconstitutional."
I have to pay taxes, I cannot murder, and I cannot steal because all of those things are protected by legislation. The government has told me what I can and cannot do through laws. Protecting people though laws is very constitutional, and the issue is whether you believe that living, breathing children are people.
edit: and yes jayna, I am pro life. That does not mean that I believe all of the things typically associated with someone that is pro life, but for the sake of being concise, I am pro life.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
I also never said I didn’t care about animals, on the contrary I said that I believe animals have rights and should be protected. I would be the first to support a cause against animal cruelty if someone posted a video of baby animals being treated inhumanely and wanted support. I’m just saying, just because people don’t bat an eye at animals being slaughtered wrongfully doesn’t mean it’s right, and shouldn’t mean that fully grown born children should be tossed aside because animals are either.
darianhrtwl said about 1 month ago
Some people will look at this issue through very sentimental compassionate eyes. Some people will look at this in a very dry and cut way. Morals and beliefs fall different with everyone. Creating laws what protect babies wouldn’t benefit us anyway. I didn’t cry about the 24144443 million people that died today, so the same applies to some baby.
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
I think in your crusade to make a valid point, you’re completely missing it. Voting "Present" is exactly like not voting for a bill. You’re NOT VOTING "Yes" as well as NOT VOTING "No". He did not vote. Moving along ...
From page 2 of the VERY SAME ARTICLE:
Pam Sutherland, president of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, said Mr. Obama was one of the senators with a strong stand for abortion rights whom the organization approached about using the strategy. Ms. Sutherland said the Republicans were trying to force Democrats from conservative districts to register politically controversial "no" votes.
Ms. Sutherland said Mr. Obama had initially resisted the strategy because he wanted to vote against the anti-abortion measures.
“He said, ‘I’m opposed to this,’” she recalled.
But the organization argued that a present vote would be difficult for Republicans to use in campaign literature against Democrats from moderate and conservative districts who favored abortion rights.
Those who voted "no" would be easier to tally.
Lisa Madigan, the Illinois attorney general who was in the Illinois Senate with Mr. Obama from 1998 through 2002, said she and Mr. Obama voted present on the anti-abortion bills.
“It’s just plain wrong to imply that voting present reflected a lack of leadership,” Ms. Madigan said. “In fact, it was the exact opposite.”
In other present votes, Mr. Obama, who also taught law at the University of Chicago while in the State Senate, said he had concerns about the constitutionality or effectiveness of some provisions.
That’s why.
You pay taxes to fund the country. You cannot steal because you are taking the property of another person. You cannot murder someone because you are taking away their life. Something that you do which is illegal generally has something to do with imposing on the rights and well being of other people. Taking away the right for people to choose how to live their life, so long as it does not impose on the lives of others is immoral.
The abortion issue really gets down to when individual people believe life begins. However, the right of a woman (the individual person) to choose whether or not to have a baby should be her own choice. Her family. Her child. Her life. Her choice. If you believe that it is an easy decision for a woman to make, then you are mistaken.
If abortions become illegal, women will be forced to make many more choices and answer many questions:
Should I obtain an abortion illegally, and risk death and/or legal action?
How will I care for this child?
Who will care for this child that I cannot care for?
Cole said about 1 month ago
jaynajaynajayna said about 1 month ago
/end thread
Ameeee said about 1 month ago
Women should be able to bloody choose.
I’m with Jayna..late term not so good.
levi! said about 1 month ago
if a women doesnt want a kid
dont have unprotected sex, or dont have sex at all
its that simple
darianhrtwl said about 1 month ago
um your forgetting about rape or the fact that condoms break. also the fact that birth for some women can be dangerous or deadly depending on their condition.
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
Are you willing to give up sex?
How about get a girl pregnant on accident?
How about have a condom break?
levi! said about 1 month ago
well first of all i have given up sex.
im trying to live a Christian life
anddd, dont be careless and get her pregnant. why end a life like the way on this video because you messed up or your cheap condom broke
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
That’s why it’s called an "accident".
levi! said about 1 month ago
so then its ok if its an accident?
oops, my gun accidentally killed your kid
Tender Branson said about 1 month ago
There are many reasons - beyond selfishness - for having an abortion. If your wife was pregnant and the doctors came out and said, wife or child, you choose. Which way are you going to go?
There is no ONE way to solve this issue. That’s why it should always be a personal choice - but a personal choice with limits.
I’m not going on a George Bush rant, but I don’t understand how someone can be so Pro Life but still hand out 152 death penalties.
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
See, that’s an excellent point!
Now, if you could take it back, would you?
That’s exactly what an abortion does! You can undo your mistake, and you have the choice to do so.
Tender Branson said about 1 month ago
If you’re going to make an argument, make a valid one. It’s common sense that even being extremely careful can lead to consequences. Accidents can even occur when a man has had a Vasectomy. Shit happens.
levi! said about 1 month ago
no. the death penalty is a punishment for wrong doing. you are punishing the wrong doing
abortion is murder of a child that was a mistake because of your mistake
this is how flawed the system is (i know this first hand)
a woman goes into the hospital to start the delivery process. she is checked for harmful drugs (meth, crack, whatever)
my sister is clean but i took the point to ask why they did this. they told me, in all seriousness while i laughed. that the woman can be charged with child endangerment if she is choosing to have the kid
but if she choose an abortion, the charges wouldnt apply
give me a break
mitchbones said about 1 month ago
Condoms aren’t 100% bro.
Tender Branson said about 1 month ago
But they don’t say Anti-Abortion. They say Pro Life. I would assume that killing anyone would directly go against being Pro Life.
If you’re basing all of this on the word of Jesus/God/Bible. I would assume it also mentions something in there about not judging people or killing them, no matter the reason. It also says that tattoos and piercings are a sin. There are many things that are flawed in the Bible, as well as the government.
jimmyheartcore said about 1 month ago
Your logic is flawed.
So you’re condoning the choice to kill someone?
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
You said it yourself, "that as long as it doesn’t impose on the life of another." What would you call killing a new born child? And 1. I never said it was an easy decision so I guess I am not mistaken, and 2. I never once said this whole entire time that abortions should become illegal, this is about killing new born children. LIVING children. BREATHING children. How long after breathing does the mom lose the right to decide to end it’s life? How many minutes? Or can any mom decide to kill her children whenever she wants? I just don’t understand when the baby goes from being garbage to a human being is all. Please explain.
Tender Branson said about 1 month ago
I’m going to go on a limb and say that I don’t think anyone in this thread agrees with the form of abortion mentioned in the video.
I was referring more towards it being your choice within a month or two. Hopefully, the person that is making the choice has had enough time to make their decision.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
Please feel free to finish your comments as well as explain why I am wrong. I will not retaliate or get in my last word. I’m going to close this thread, it’s become a Alpha-Male, chest beating contest and that’s not conducive to anything. So again please, post your final arguments, get in your last chest beats and in fifteen minutes I’m going to close comments on the thread so that we can all get back to the loving tee community we all adore. Thank you all for the intellectual stimulation.
SentimentalNate said about 1 month ago
In a lot of ways I totally agree with you. There will always be circumstances when abortion is necessary. Ultimately it is a personal decision that everyone has to live with. I do not know every case and cannot judge every case and say that every case is wrong. That is why I said before that I never said it should be illegal.
Comments are closed