http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/business/media/15illo.html?_r=1 Basically, Google wants illustrations for people to pick for their google home pages, but they're only offering exposure. The saddest part is they have no shortage of Illustrators willing to sell their soul. Discuss. 2009-06-20T13:21:02-04:00 120 2009-06-15T11:02:50-04:00 40731 false false 12224 997 1 2009-11-08T07:41:01-05:00 1456 “You’d think that if anyone can afford to pay artists and designers it would be a company that is making millions of dollars,” Mr. Ciardiello said in an interview. In the first quarter of this year alone, Google reported profits of $1.42 billion, an increase of 8 percent over the same period last year. indeed, now these guys need to be educated. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:13:48-04:00 1190311 3643 2009-06-15T11:13:48-04:00 that's really sad... but it demonstrates what a company like google is all about. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:18:52-04:00 1190371 1114 2009-06-15T11:18:52-04:00 In the end, the exposure for participating illustrators will be tainted, after all they expose theirselves as willing to work for free. It´s the sort of exposure one can do without methinks? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:22:03-04:00 1190391 7859 2009-06-15T11:22:03-04:00 Yeah, I mean.. When I imagine getting larger accounts, I imagine them coming with bigger paychecks, you know? It's hard to blame it on the companies who are asking for work for free, when Illustrators are so quick to roll over on ethics and hand over hard work in exchange for nothing but air. It scares me, as a person who wants to be able to feed my family in the future through illustration, to watch the skill be made laughable. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:24:45-04:00 1190471 997 2009-06-15T11:24:45-04:00 apparently google has a pretty high opinion of themselves. I remember a thread on the root once where an applicant for a graphic design position at google had to go through a gauntlet of design challenges before they even got an interview. Basically creating icons and the like for free. The only payment was just further consideration. Kind of a different situation but not really. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:29:46-04:00 1190531 1146 2009-06-15T11:43:39-04:00 <blockquote><cite>derekdeal said:</cite> apparently google has a pretty high opinion of themselves. I remember a thread on the root once where an applicant for a graphic design position at google had to go through a gauntlet of design challenges before they even got an interview. Basically creating icons and the like for free. The only payment was just being further consideration. Kind of a different situation but not really.</blockquote> I interviewed at Google a few years back for a Project Manager position, and had to go through a gauntlet of interviews...and let me tell you, they have a HIGH opinion of themselves (and that's putting it in a nice way). It is very much the mentality of "Hey we built this really cool treehouse and it's full of fucking Rocket Scientists and Nobel Prize winners...what makes you think you're special enough to hang out with us. Oh hey sorry gotta go we're having an organic food fight up in our sweet ass treehouse" 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:34:14-04:00 1190561 11937 2009-06-15T11:34:14-04:00 if they wanted to get away with the "free exposure" thing they should have contacted less known artist, not people that have work published in top magazines already... how many rocket scientists you need to figure that out? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:40:03-04:00 1190681 1114 2009-06-15T11:40:03-04:00 I guess it is free exposure, and couldnt you just draw some POS for them, and if you get picked you get exposure? Cashmoney would also be nice. xox bree-tard 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:42:16-04:00 1190751 30651 2009-06-15T11:42:16-04:00 "If you're good at something, never do it for free" And, good lord. If you want people to buy your work, why would you post something shitty for exposure? Please be a troll. Please. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:46:40-04:00 1190811 997 2009-06-15T11:46:40-04:00 Also: exposure???...not even some free Ad space or something, just giving you the chance to let millions of people see your work. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't even link to the artist's website or blog, just throw his name in a corner. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:49:31-04:00 1190831 3643 2009-06-15T11:49:31-04:00 google can suck my cock. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:50:26-04:00 1190851 13245 2009-06-15T11:50:26-04:00 Not necessarily shitty hun, just something you havent been able to sell in the past? your quote is a lie. I could be amazing at cooking, but I would do it for my family for free, would I not? Hasn't "giving" things away for free been a marketeing scheme for years? If you buy a tee at a local show is it not common to get a free pin (button) with it? that is called free advertising? xox, bree-tard 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:51:06-04:00 1190861 30651 2009-06-15T11:51:06-04:00 Write them an angry letter and throw eggs at their HQ <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> It is very much the mentality of "Hey we built this really cool treehouse and it's full of fucking Rocket Scientists and Nobel Prize winners...what makes you think you're special enough to hang out with us. Oh hey sorry gotta go we're having an organic food fight up in our sweet ass treehouse"</blockquote> you're funny 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:53:14-04:00 1190881 2712 2009-06-15T11:53:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Not necessarily shitty hun, just something you havent been able to sell in the past? your quote is a lie. I could be amazing at cooking, but I would do it for my family for free, would I not? Hasn't "giving" things away for free been a marketeing scheme for years? If you buy a tee at a local show is it not common to get a free pin (button) with it? that is called free advertising? xox, bree-tard</blockquote> the chances of google taking artwork from a small rookie artist is quite slim. if google accepts work from a bigtime artist, that individual should be paid. google is flippin wealthy, so paying shouldn't be a problem. they should expect some high rates too. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:53:37-04:00 1190891 13245 2009-06-15T11:53:37-04:00 Mozilla has been doing user chrome skins for a while now http://www.getpersonas.com/ 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:54:30-04:00 1190901 23301 2009-06-15T11:54:47-04:00 There's a difference between a gift to your family, and giving your work away for free to a company who made over a billion dollars last year. If you think exposure is compensation for adding value to a 1.4 billion dollar product, you are an idiot. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:54:36-04:00 1190911 997 2009-06-15T11:54:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Not necessarily shitty hun, just something you havent been able to sell in the past? your quote is a lie. I could be amazing at cooking, but I would do it for my family for free, would I not? Hasn't "giving" things away for free been a marketeing scheme for years? If you buy a tee at a local show is it not common to get a free pin (button) with it? that is called free advertising? xox, bree-tard</blockquote> Free advertising.lol you might be amazing at sex, but that doesn't mean you should go around giving to everyone for free. and when i say "you could", i mean it as "one could". it's clear to me you have no clue what you are talking about, so, let's carry on. stick around, maybe you'll learn something. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:55:03-04:00 1190921 3643 2009-06-15T11:55:03-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jonny said:</cite> Mozilla has been doing user chrome skins for a while now http://www.getpersonas.com/</blockquote> Mozilla is a non-profit organization. It's run by the community, for the community. Totally different scenario. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:56:28-04:00 1190931 997 2009-06-15T11:56:28-04:00 <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Not necessarily shitty hun, just something you havent been able to sell in the past? your quote is a lie. I could be amazing at cooking, but I would do it for my family for free, would I not? Hasn't "giving" things away for free been a marketeing scheme for years? If you buy a tee at a local show is it not common to get a free pin (button) with it? that is called free advertising? xox, bree-tard</blockquote> the chances of google taking artwork from a small rookie artist is quite slim. if google accepts work from a bigtime artist, that individual should be paid. google is flippin wealthy, so paying shouldn't be a problem. they should expect some high rates too.</blockquote> True, but wont most "big artists" think that google should pay and therefore not submit work? And any smalltime rookie, just trying to enter the business can get some decent (or indecent) exposure for free,just by submitting a peice of art? I see from both sides though, and this campaign is not likely to make it off the ground. Maybe google will also change their shit and pay, or hold a contest involving a cash prize. Either way, I wouldn't submit anything until i see what kind of exposure google will give. they could have a Terms Of Agreement stating that they completely own the peice of art just for simply submitting it. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:56:50-04:00 1190951 30651 2009-06-15T11:56:50-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Not necessarily shitty hun, just something you havent been able to sell in the past? your quote is a lie. I could be amazing at cooking, but I would do it for my family for free, would I not? Hasn't "giving" things away for free been a marketeing scheme for years? If you buy a tee at a local show is it not common to get a free pin (button) with it? that is called free advertising? xox, bree-tard</blockquote> it's not like you are giving away some random unused artwork to a small website because that maybe will bring some more hits to your portfolio... it's about giving free work to a multi million company like google... i'm sure they pay all their employees... not just go like "you work here for free because we are so cool and google will look great on your cv"... if they pay all their employees why they would not pay for illustrations? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:57:41-04:00 1190961 1114 2009-06-15T11:57:41-04:00 I already have exposure with google. <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/9da38dd8881b3d58194a901487d857a3.png" /> 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:57:52-04:00 1190971 506 2009-06-15T11:57:52-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jonny said:</cite> Mozilla has been doing user chrome skins for a while now http://www.getpersonas.com/</blockquote> Mozilla is a non-profit organization. It's run by the community, for the community. Totally different scenario.</blockquote> just pointed out they're ahead of Google in the game 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:58:12-04:00 1190991 23301 2009-06-15T11:58:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jonny said:</cite> Mozilla has been doing user chrome skins for a while now http://www.getpersonas.com/</blockquote> Mozilla is a non-profit organization. It's run by the community, for the community. Totally different scenario.</blockquote> even they held a t-shirt design contest, and the prize was cash. so? if they doing it non-profit can pay, how come google is so damn cheap? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:58:56-04:00 1191001 3643 2009-06-15T11:58:56-04:00 Wonder what pros will get people who agreed to join this and how their work will be exposured, because I use sometimes igoogle and all I've noticed is small "about" link waaaaay down in the bottom of theme 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:58:59-04:00 1191021 12580 2009-06-15T11:58:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jonny said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jonny said:</cite> Mozilla has been doing user chrome skins for a while now http://www.getpersonas.com/</blockquote> Mozilla is a non-profit organization. It's run by the community, for the community. Totally different scenario.</blockquote> just pointed out they're ahead of Google in the game</blockquote> Google is not doing user skins, it's doing special artist skins. Even if it was, what does this bring to the discussion? blah. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T11:59:21-04:00 1191031 997 2009-06-15T11:59:21-04:00 <img src="http://www.ideachampions.com/weblogs/google-dr-evil.jpg" /> 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:05:19-04:00 1191091 13245 2009-06-15T12:05:19-04:00 If you dont like the terms, than don't submit your art! I said CLEARLY, earlier on, that i would not submit my art because i dont like the terms. I'm fairly certain they have MANY individuals who would kill for this chance, which allows them to do it. I agree where they should offer a cash prize, and maybe this idea is just that, an idea. and Idea: an INKEMPLETE thought process. More will likely be added onto it, and more will likely be taken off. its all just how the world works, if you dont think something is fair, don't do it. earlier someone said i'm in lamemans terms a "newb". and maybe i should stick around. maybe you should "live,love,burn,die" we are here to learn. We grow up with the experiences we have made. Xox, bree-tard please note: i dont support googles thought process, im simply trying to see both sides. also, INKEMPLETE is a good artist, I am not dissing him in any way. also note: I KEMPLETELY agree that google should pay their artists, but I'm not google and i cant change their rules. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:07:55-04:00 1191141 30651 2009-06-15T12:07:55-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> If you dont like the terms, than don't submit your art! I said CLEARLY, earlier on, that i would not submit my art because i dont like the terms. I'm fairly certain they have MANY individuals who would kill for this chance, which allows them to do it. I agree where they should offer a cash prize, and maybe this idea is just that, an idea. and Idea: an INKEMPLETE thought process. More will likely be added onto it, and more will likely be taken off. its all just how the world works, if you dont think something is fair, don't do it. earlier someone said i'm in lamemans terms a "newb". and maybe i should stick around. maybe you should "live,love,burn,die" we are here to learn. We grow up with the experiences we have made. Xox, bree-tard please note: i dont support googles thought process, im simply trying to see both sides. also, INKEMPLETE is a good artist, I am not dissing him in any way. also note: I KEMPLETELY agree that google should pay their artists, but I'm not google and i cant change their rules.</blockquote> quit saying my name so much you troll. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:11:20-04:00 1191211 13245 2009-06-15T12:11:20-04:00 No, you keep trying to act like it's okay and that's just how the world is. It's not. If you called up a mechanic and told them to fix your car, and you would repay them by telling people how good a job they did, they'd laugh in your face. "Granting a prize" is just as bad. Take your car to all of the mechanics in the area and tell them whoever does the best job will get paid, cuz you're having a jolly contest. This is a real career, and people who illustrate have real bills to pay just like everyone else. It's not okay, it's not "just how it is" and it'll only get worse if we don't stand up for ourselves and make a point that our skills are as valuable as everyone elses. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:12:14-04:00 1191231 997 2009-06-15T12:12:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> No, you keep trying to act like it's okay and that's just how the world is. It's not. If you called up a mechanic and told them to fix your car, and you would repay them by telling people how good a job they did, they'd laugh in your face. "Granting a prize" is just as bad. Take your car to all of the mechanics in the area and tell them whoever does the best job will get paid, cuz you're having a jolly contest. This is a real career, and people who illustrate have real bills to pay just like everyone else. It's not okay, it's not "just how it is" and it'll only get worse if we don't stand up for ourselves and make a point that our skills are as valuable as everyone elses.</blockquote> exactly. i am only sixteen and i live with my family. my family is not wealthy, i have been living in basements, and tiny apartments my whole life. that extra cash can really help everyone out. it'd be a waste to work for google and not get paid. i am wasting my time, i am wasting my effort, and i am not getting much in return. i would do a lot better with NO exposure at all, and some cash. having google in my portfolio/resume is cool with me. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:14:18-04:00 1191271 13245 2009-06-15T12:16:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> If you dont like the terms, than don't submit your art! I said CLEARLY, earlier on, that i would not submit my art because i dont like the terms. I'm fairly certain they have MANY individuals who would kill for this chance, which allows them to do it. I agree where they should offer a cash prize, and maybe this idea is just that, an idea. and Idea: an INKEMPLETE thought process. More will likely be added onto it, and more will likely be taken off. its all just how the world works, if you dont think something is fair, don't do it. earlier someone said i'm in lamemans terms a "newb". and maybe i should stick around. maybe you should "live,love,burn,die" we are here to learn. We grow up with the experiences we have made. Xox, bree-tard please note: i dont support googles thought process, im simply trying to see both sides. also, INKEMPLETE is a good artist, I am not dissing him in any way. also note: I KEMPLETELY agree that google should pay their artists, but I'm not google and i cant change their rules.</blockquote> You work for google, oh shit it's a google troll, dieeeeeeeee 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:15:47-04:00 1191321 5804 2009-06-15T12:15:47-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Backfire said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> If you dont like the terms, than don't submit your art! I said CLEARLY, earlier on, that i would not submit my art because i dont like the terms. I'm fairly certain they have MANY individuals who would kill for this chance, which allows them to do it. I agree where they should offer a cash prize, and maybe this idea is just that, an idea. and Idea: an INKEMPLETE thought process. More will likely be added onto it, and more will likely be taken off. its all just how the world works, if you dont think something is fair, don't do it. earlier someone said i'm in lamemans terms a "newb". and maybe i should stick around. maybe you should "live,love,burn,die" we are here to learn. We grow up with the experiences we have made. Xox, bree-tard please note: i dont support googles thought process, im simply trying to see both sides. also, INKEMPLETE is a good artist, I am not dissing him in any way. also note: I KEMPLETELY agree that google should pay their artists, but I'm not google and i cant change their rules.</blockquote> You work for google, oh shit it's a google troll, dieeeeeeeee</blockquote> emptees bretherin, grab your rayguns. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:17:17-04:00 1191381 13245 2009-06-15T12:17:17-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> If you dont like the terms, than don't submit your art! I said CLEARLY, earlier on, that i would not submit my art because i dont like the terms. I'm fairly certain they have MANY individuals who would kill for this chance, which allows them to do it. I agree where they should offer a cash prize, and maybe this idea is just that, an idea. and Idea: an INKEMPLETE thought process. More will likely be added onto it, and more will likely be taken off. its all just how the world works, if you dont think something is fair, don't do it. earlier someone said i'm in lamemans terms a "newb". and maybe i should stick around. maybe you should "live,love,burn,die" we are here to learn. We grow up with the experiences we have made. Xox, bree-tard please note: i dont support googles thought process, im simply trying to see both sides. also, INKEMPLETE is a good artist, I am not dissing him in any way. also note: I KEMPLETELY agree that google should pay their artists, but I'm not google and i cant change their rules.</blockquote> INKEMPLETE just got INKEMPLETELY bumlicked 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:17:46-04:00 1191421 9658 2009-06-15T12:18:11-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Robb said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> If you dont like the terms, than don't submit your art! I said CLEARLY, earlier on, that i would not submit my art because i dont like the terms. I'm fairly certain they have MANY individuals who would kill for this chance, which allows them to do it. I agree where they should offer a cash prize, and maybe this idea is just that, an idea. and Idea: an INKEMPLETE thought process. More will likely be added onto it, and more will likely be taken off. its all just how the world works, if you dont think something is fair, don't do it. earlier someone said i'm in lamemans terms a "newb". and maybe i should stick around. maybe you should "live,love,burn,die" we are here to learn. We grow up with the experiences we have made. Xox, bree-tard please note: i dont support googles thought process, im simply trying to see both sides. also, INKEMPLETE is a good artist, I am not dissing him in any way. also note: I KEMPLETELY agree that google should pay their artists, but I'm not google and i cant change their rules.</blockquote> INKEMPLETE just got INKEMPLETELY bumlicked</blockquote> word. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:19:36-04:00 1191451 13245 2009-06-15T12:19:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> No, you keep trying to act like it's okay and that's just how the world is. It's not. If you called up a mechanic and told them to fix your car, and you would repay them by telling people how good a job they did, they'd laugh in your face. "Granting a prize" is just as bad. Take your car to all of the mechanics in the area and tell them whoever does the best job will get paid, cuz you're having a jolly contest. This is a real career, and people who illustrate have real bills to pay just like everyone else. It's not okay, it's not "just how it is" and it'll only get worse if we don't stand up for ourselves and make a point that our skills are as valuable as everyone elses.</blockquote> For some it is already a real career, correct. for those just starting out, maybe the need the exposure. Welcome to reality, you will be played your entire life. as i said before, I'm support YOU, the artist, i am not supporting google. I am not giving you a tap on the hand and saying, NO! your wrong! Nor am i doing it to google. Believe you me, YOU ARE RIGHT, how many times must i state this to get it through your head? I am also stating, this is life. Life is a bitch. If i had ANY power of the matter, I would make google pay EVERY artist. It isn't fair. I know, But as we have been taught since we were little is, Life ISNT Fair. The best way to stop them is dont submit your artwork. Imagine the humility google would get if they posted this BIG campaign and not a single artist submited a peice of work but a 12 year old boy with a dragon drawn in crayons that looks like something<img src="https://edocs.uis.edu/hadleyiv/www/eric/art/big/Arthur_3-2-01.jpg" /> would you laugh, would google ever not pay again? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:21:49-04:00 1191491 30651 2009-06-15T12:23:15-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Imagine the humility google would get if they posted this BIG campaign and not a single artist submited a peice of work but a 12 year old boy with a dragon drawn in crayons that looks like something<img src="https://edocs.uis.edu/hadleyiv/www/eric/art/big/Arthur_3-2-01.jpg" /> would you laugh, would google ever not pay again?</blockquote> are you arthur? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:28:17-04:00 1191621 9658 2009-06-15T12:28:17-04:00 Ever had someone say get a real job. That really bugs me. If it were really that easy then why not just do it yourself? As with all work, professionals do a better job, and getting compensated is not unheard of. It saddens me that when creatives ask for money it's a huge deal. We shouldn't have to ask. At my day job I get a paycheck, and perks. With the arts, I'm lucky to get a paycheck. Just be thankful, I'm not asking for dental, and a 401k on top of it. “We don’t feel comfortable releasing the names of artists who are participating in the project before it launches,” stated the company So they are working for exposure and google isn't exposing. That is a fist full of shit. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:30:24-04:00 1191661 506 2009-06-15T12:39:40-04:00 Soul hurts 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:38:23-04:00 1191771 2329 2009-06-15T12:38:23-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> No, you keep trying to act like it's okay and that's just how the world is. It's not. If you called up a mechanic and told them to fix your car, and you would repay them by telling people how good a job they did, they'd laugh in your face. "Granting a prize" is just as bad. Take your car to all of the mechanics in the area and tell them whoever does the best job will get paid, cuz you're having a jolly contest. This is a real career, and people who illustrate have real bills to pay just like everyone else. It's not okay, it's not "just how it is" and it'll only get worse if we don't stand up for ourselves and make a point that our skills are as valuable as everyone elses.</blockquote> For some it is already a real career, correct. for those just starting out, maybe the need the exposure. Welcome to reality, you will be played your entire life. as i said before, I'm support YOU, the artist, i am not supporting google. I am not giving you a tap on the hand and saying, NO! your wrong! Nor am i doing it to google. Believe you me, YOU ARE RIGHT, how many times must i state this to get it through your head? I am also stating, this is life. Life is a bitch. If i had ANY power of the matter, I would make google pay EVERY artist. It isn't fair. I know, But as we have been taught since we were little is, Life ISNT Fair. The best way to stop them is dont submit your artwork. Imagine the humility google would get if they posted this BIG campaign and not a single artist submited a peice of work but a 12 year old boy with a dragon drawn in crayons that looks like something<img src="https://edocs.uis.edu/hadleyiv/www/eric/art/big/Arthur_3-2-01.jpg" /> would you laugh, would google ever not pay again?</blockquote> I don't know if you're inkemplete, or someone who doesn't like inkemplete, or really just a slow person. Anyway.. It's not just how life is, period. You have missed the entire point of this being posted. This is already a real career, and it is being trivialized by people treating it like a fucking gameshow, or even less. The only way for this to change is for people involved to stand up for themselves, and making an example of one of the biggest companies out there is a good way to gain ground for the cause. So, I don't care if you say I'm right. I will not be agreeing with your "that's just how it is" clause. Ever. When someone molests a little girl, I don't go "well that's fucked up, but that's just how the world is." I rally to have that bastard sent to jail. When somebody molests my profession, I have the same reaction. I find your spineless opinion offensive. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:43:04-04:00 1191801 997 2009-06-15T12:43:04-04:00 bree-tards only loved shirts are inkempletes. self love. only fun till you get caught 40731 Post 2009-06-15T12:47:13-04:00 1191841 324 2009-06-15T12:47:13-04:00 <blockquote><cite>bear said:</cite> bree-tards only loved shirts are inkempletes. self love. only fun till you get caught</blockquote> 40731 Post 2009-06-15T13:01:16-04:00 1192191 29171 2009-06-15T13:01:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Riff said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>bear said:</cite> bree-tards only loved shirts are inkempletes. self love. only fun till you get caught</blockquote></blockquote> the plot thickens! 40731 Post 2009-06-15T13:02:52-04:00 1192211 7055 2009-06-15T13:02:52-04:00 While you was not paying attention i did me this for firefox:) <img src="http://content.screencast.com/users/ezkun/folders/Jing/media/2ab8adaf-c21d-425b-86aa-a3d3856a7b50/2009-06-15_2004.png" /> Reetard, weak sauce, you made heavy-angry! 40731 Post 2009-06-15T13:05:04-04:00 1192251 3643 2009-06-15T13:06:14-04:00 ^cool theme EZ :) 40731 Post 2009-06-15T13:07:23-04:00 1192281 7055 2009-06-15T13:07:23-04:00 <blockquote><cite>bear said:</cite> bree-tards only loved shirts are inkempletes. self love. only fun till you get caught</blockquote> lol 40731 Post 2009-06-15T13:08:44-04:00 1192331 7951 2009-06-15T13:08:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> I already have exposure with google. <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/9da38dd8881b3d58194a901487d857a3.png" /></blockquote> no doubt brother, My name and Rilla Gorilla are both first when you search them on google. I say boo on some free art to a company that has the means to completely afford it. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T13:57:15-04:00 1192821 9099 2009-06-15T13:57:15-04:00 I love how everybody hops on a high horse when it comes to these subjects. If you want to do it, do it. If you don't, then don't. Don't try and shame other people into doing what YOU think is right. It's not your decision to make. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:00:55-04:00 1192951 785 2009-06-15T14:00:55-04:00 Move out of your moms house, get a mortgage and a car payment and utilities and insurance and groceries over your head, work in exchange for exposure for a while, call me back. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:02:15-04:00 1192991 997 2009-06-15T14:02:15-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Move out of your moms house, get a mortgage and a car payment and utilities and insurance and groceries over your head, work in exchange for exposure for a while, call me back.</blockquote> you forgot two kids. and a wife. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:03:11-04:00 1193001 3643 2009-06-15T14:03:11-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Move out of your moms house, get a mortgage and a car payment and utilities and insurance and groceries over your head, work in exchange for exposure for a while, call me back.</blockquote> I still live with my mom, and have to pay my car payment, car insurance, most of the groceries, gas, and help with rent...and i'm only getting about $400 every two weeks..credit cards maxed so...like I said if you don't want to do it, don't do it lol 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:10:52-04:00 1193131 785 2009-06-15T14:11:32-04:00 I think you missed the part where you actually have to pay all the bills, and if you can't come up with the money you lose the place you live. I mean, why don't you just give all your SC shirts away, it would be great exposure to get them on people? - Get off your high horse. Go to your walmart job for free, people seeing you working there will let them know you are a hard worker and they will give you lots of well-paying jobs. - Get off your high horse. Go to work tomorrow and have your boss tell you that your check is only going to be half of what it was before, because other people are willing to do it for exposure. Pay your bills then. - Get off your high horse. If giving a fuck about what I do for a living is being on a high horse, I'll stay on mine. Exposure doesn't feed my kids. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:15:51-04:00 1193181 997 2009-06-15T14:15:51-04:00 400 bucks every 2 weeks does not pay the bills im sorry. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:18:43-04:00 1193221 2870 2009-06-15T14:18:43-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> I think you missed the part where you actually have to pay all the bills, and if you can't come up with the money you lose the place you live. I mean, why don't you just give all your SC shirts away, it would be great exposure to get them on people? - Get off your high horse. Go to your walmart job for free, people seeing you working there will let them know you are a hard worker and they will give you lots of well-paying jobs. - Get off your high horse. Go to work tomorrow and have your boss tell you that your check is only going to be half of what it was before, because other people are willing to do it for exposure. Pay your bills then. - Get off your high horse. If giving a fuck about what I do for a living is being on a high horse, I'll stay on mine. Exposure doesn't feed my kids.</blockquote> i love you. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:19:36-04:00 1193251 324 2009-06-15T14:19:36-04:00 You aren't getting what I'm saying. Do I think it's bad they aren't paying..yes...do I think anybody should do all that for free..no. But i'm not going to knock other people that might be able to financially do this. I totally understand you have bills to pay, which is why you should do paid work. It comes down to the person, and this argument has been on here a million times..that's why I said high horse. I'm not saying it to anyone in particular but being mad because somebody else is dumb enough to work for free doesn't help. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:20:20-04:00 1193271 785 2009-06-15T14:20:20-04:00 There is no high horse in this situation Grant, I'm sure you will understand. The problem is...google and othe major companies get to do this, it devalues the work of all of us, kids living at home or guys that have to make a living. I'm sure that if at some point you want to pursue design as a career (which you can do, because you are very talented) it would suck ass to get lowballed on the account of other doing it for free or for exposure. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:20:34-04:00 1193281 3643 2009-06-15T14:20:34-04:00 <blockquote><cite>G-rant said:</cite> You aren't getting what I'm saying. Do I think it's bad they aren't paying..yes...do I think anybody should do all that for free..no. But i'm not going to knock other people that might be able to financially do this. I totally understand you have bills to pay, which is why you should do paid work. It comes down to the person, and this argument has been on here a million times..that's why I said high horse. I'm not saying it to anyone in particular but being mad because somebody else is dumb enough to work for free doesn't help.</blockquote> its not the fact that an artist can do it or cant do it... its the fact that HUGE companies like this THINK its ok to just walk all over the artist... tha tis the whole point of this thread my friend... Standing up for your career so you dont look like a bunch of chumps to everyone... when google devalues an artist.. how many others will think it is OK to do that? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:22:19-04:00 1193321 2870 2009-06-15T14:22:47-04:00 <blockquote><cite>eZ-kun said:</cite> There is no high horse in this situation Grant, I'm sure you will understand. The problem is...google and othe major companies get to do this, it devalues the work of all of us, kids living at home or guys that have to make a living. I'm sure that if at some point you want to pursue design as a career (which you can do, because you are very talented) it would suck ass to get lowballed on the account of other doing it for free or for exposure.</blockquote> It's happened to me before, I got screwed over on doing something for Greedy Genius because somebody wanted to do it for free. I was pissed, but I moved on, I know there is always going to be somebody out there that would rather pay for quality than get shit for free. <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> 400 bucks every 2 weeks does not pay the bills im sorry.</blockquote> I know it doesn't lol, that's the problem 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:24:30-04:00 1193381 785 2009-06-15T14:24:30-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>G-rant said:</cite> You aren't getting what I'm saying. Do I think it's bad they aren't paying..yes...do I think anybody should do all that for free..no. But i'm not going to knock other people that might be able to financially do this. I totally understand you have bills to pay, which is why you should do paid work. It comes down to the person, and this argument has been on here a million times..that's why I said high horse. I'm not saying it to anyone in particular but being mad because somebody else is dumb enough to work for free doesn't help.</blockquote> its not the fact that an artist can do it or cant do it... its the fact that HUGE companies like this THINK its ok to just walk all over the artist... tha tis the whole point of this thread my friend... Standing up for your career so you dont look like a bunch of chumps to everyone... when google devalues an artist.. how many others will think it is OK to do that?</blockquote> thread ender. well said. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:24:39-04:00 1193391 29171 2009-06-15T14:24:39-04:00 If you don't like something, change it. "Life is a bitch" to me, is the lack of effort and action put into a situation that may be challenging. Sometimes you have to move to catch the ball, it won't always land in your hand. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:29:27-04:00 1193481 3501 2009-06-15T14:29:27-04:00 Fuck you, google! 40731 Post 2009-06-15T14:43:48-04:00 1193691 9179 2009-06-15T14:43:48-04:00 <b>guys i swear to god its not me. i am not stupid enough to pull something like that. give me bit more credit. someone delete this fucker, whoever it is.</b> 40731 Post 2009-06-15T15:40:12-04:00 1194411 13245 2009-06-15T15:40:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <b>guys i swear to god its not me. i am not stupid enough to pull something like that. give me bit more credit. someone delete this fucker, whoever it is.</b></blockquote> why delete your biggest fan, haha? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T15:42:48-04:00 1194461 3643 2009-06-15T15:42:48-04:00 <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <b>guys i swear to god its not me. i am not stupid enough to pull something like that. give me bit more credit. someone delete this fucker, whoever it is.</b></blockquote> bold is an obvious sign of guilt 40731 Post 2009-06-15T15:44:14-04:00 1194481 1146 2009-06-15T15:44:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>eZ-kun said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <b>guys i swear to god its not me. i am not stupid enough to pull something like that. give me bit more credit. someone delete this fucker, whoever it is.</b></blockquote> why delete your biggest fan, haha?</blockquote> because it's ruining my credibility. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T15:44:23-04:00 1194491 13245 2009-06-15T15:44:23-04:00 *insert skeptical house picture here* 40731 Post 2009-06-15T15:45:44-04:00 1194521 29171 2009-06-15T15:45:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> I already have exposure with google. <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/9da38dd8881b3d58194a901487d857a3.png" /></blockquote> i love their suggestions. did you mean...<img src="http://www.ryanvsclark.com/images/ninja.jpg" /> 40731 Post 2009-06-15T15:53:38-04:00 1194681 12163 2009-06-15T15:53:38-04:00 Doh! It was a coin toss as to where to put the ninja. It's better then what it was before, it used to ask, did you mean queer ninja? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T15:57:09-04:00 1194841 506 2009-06-15T15:57:09-04:00 Dang.. Man. These threads always get people going but I think they are very important and informative to those that don't know what it's like. A lot of people will never really know about priorities until like what Heavy Prints said you really have all this to rely on. I used to do free lance for 3 merchandise companies and man sometimes I would do so much spec work it was not even funny and my checks were always late so my job as a video game tester, game store associate and Closet World Customer Service Representative had to really come through. I finally decided to get a steady paying job in design and even having one of those is difficult. I work for a corporate multi-level marketing company. I get paid 40,000 a year and have 2 kids to feed, 2 car payments, groceries, utilities, diapers etc. This is not enough to maintain my household. It's just not. So side work is definitely a must and a blessing for me. I understand where everybody is coming from but i have to hand it to these dudes that do this for a living because it is extremely hard when everybody thinks that we just LOVE DRAWING SO FUCKING MUCH that we do it for free or that we wouldn't mind the exposure. Or it's so easy to come up with web sites so making a web site for someone will give us exposure BECAUSE THEIR BUSINESS HAS SOOOOO MANY CLIENTS BLAH BLAH.. Fuck that! Everyone just thinks that artists are these free thinking people that don't care about money and that life is just a canvas for us but that shit is not true. We live in a 2 income household minimum world and have our own personal obligations, hopes & dreams. Much respect to the guys supporting their households and helping their families. Being humble will definitely help you guys when your on your own and it will definitely help you appreciate everything so much more. What Google is doing is awful and I wish they would really reconsider there contest. I love seeing the Dr. Suess Google theme but would feel awful to know that Dr. Suess's foundation didn't get anything from that or that the artist just did it for exposure. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:04:37-04:00 1195011 13561 2009-06-15T16:04:37-04:00 Let the record show that I do not believe spec-work and molesting little girls is anywhere in the same ballpark and should not be directly compared. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:18:10-04:00 1195241 4171 2009-06-15T16:18:10-04:00 Welcome to the World. I'm entitled to my own opinions, as you are to yours. Discussion is healthy, Argument is healthy. No two people will ever agree. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:23:32-04:00 1195381 30651 2009-06-15T16:23:32-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Welcome to the World. I'm entitled to my own opinions, as you are to yours. Discussion is healthy, Argument is healthy. No two people will ever agree.</blockquote> ^I agree! 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:25:51-04:00 1195471 9179 2009-06-15T16:25:51-04:00 Despite you not liking it, I can and will speak my mind! I said my opinions, you have said yours. I was called a troll because: A) You dont understand english B) you like calling people random names to make you feel better about yourself C) Both. a troll is someone who doesnt contribute to a conversastion. I would be a troll if i simple said LOLGETALYFE 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:30:02-04:00 1195531 30651 2009-06-15T16:32:18-04:00 IM A PROSTITUTE THEN :( 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:31:09-04:00 1195561 11719 2009-06-15T16:31:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Despite you not liking it, I can and will speak my mind! I said my opinions, you have said yours. I was called a troll because: A) You dont understand english B) you like calling people random names to make you feel better about yourself C) Both. a troll is someone who doesnt contribute top a conversastion. I would be a troll if i simple said LOLGETALYFE</blockquote> wait a flippin minute... are you in my art class? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:32:08-04:00 1195581 13245 2009-06-15T16:32:08-04:00 <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Despite you not liking it, I can and will speak my mind! I said my opinions, you have said yours. I was called a troll because: A) You dont understand english B) you like calling people random names to make you feel better about yourself C) Both. a troll is someone who doesnt contribute top a conversastion. I would be a troll if i simple said LOLGETALYFE</blockquote> wait a flippin minute... are you in my art class?</blockquote> Im pretty sure I sit next to you in art. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:32:39-04:00 1195591 30651 2009-06-15T16:32:39-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Despite you not liking it, I can and will speak my mind! I said my opinions, you have said yours. I was called a troll because: A) You dont understand english B) you like calling people random names to make you feel better about yourself C) Both. a troll is someone who doesnt contribute top a conversastion. I would be a troll if i simple said LOLGETALYFE</blockquote> wait a flippin minute... are you in my art class?</blockquote> Im pretty sure I sit next to you in art.</blockquote> word. that's fucked, i thought you was a troll. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:33:11-04:00 1195611 13245 2009-06-15T16:33:11-04:00 I am interested as to who you are and how you can contribute to this website. I appreciate that you have mind of your own. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:34:29-04:00 1195641 3501 2009-06-15T16:34:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Despite you not liking it, I can and will speak my mind! I said my opinions, you have said yours. I was called a troll because: A) You dont understand english B) you like calling people random names to make you feel better about yourself C) Both. a troll is someone who doesnt contribute top a conversastion. I would be a troll if i simple said LOLGETALYFE</blockquote> wait a flippin minute... are you in my art class?</blockquote> Im pretty sure I sit next to you in art.</blockquote> word. that's fucked, i thought you was a troll.</blockquote> LOOOOOL 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:35:11-04:00 1195671 3643 2009-06-15T16:35:11-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> I am interested as to who you are and how you can contribute to this website. I appreciate that you have mind of your own.</blockquote> My name is Bree, and i contributed to the topic. have you even read a post, or am i right to assume you havent learned that in school yet. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:35:59-04:00 1195711 30651 2009-06-15T16:35:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> I am interested as to who you are and how you can contribute to this website. I appreciate that you have mind of your own.</blockquote> My name is Bree, and i contributed to the topic. have you even read a post, or am i right to assume you havent learned that in school yet.</blockquote> ooo easy there, haha. oh btw, sorry heavyprints for overposting on this thread. shit got out of controlz. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:37:03-04:00 1195761 13245 2009-06-15T16:39:02-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> I am interested as to who you are and how you can contribute to this website. I appreciate that you have mind of your own.</blockquote> My name is Bree, and i contributed to the topic. have you even read a post, or am i right to assume you havent learned that in school yet.</blockquote> I did not ask for your name. You are wrong,ignorant and absolutely out of place. You can go back to your cave now. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:38:58-04:00 1195811 3501 2009-06-15T16:38:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Welcome to the World. I'm entitled to my own opinions, as you are to yours. Discussion is healthy, Argument is healthy. No two people will ever agree.</blockquote> I never told you that you weren't allowed to be a moron. I just explained why you were. <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Despite you not liking it, I can and will speak my mind! I said my opinions, you have said yours. I was called a troll because: A) You dont understand english B) you like calling people random names to make you feel better about yourself C) Both. a troll is someone who doesnt contribute to a conversastion. I would be a troll if i simple said LOLGETALYFE</blockquote> You were called a troll because you came in here acting like a retard, and hugging inkempletes nutsack pretty hard. I figured it was someone trying to screw with him, cuz you were pretty much framing him as being a douchebag. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:39:28-04:00 1195831 997 2009-06-15T16:39:28-04:00 <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Despite you not liking it, I can and will speak my mind! I said my opinions, you have said yours. I was called a troll because: A) You dont understand english B) you like calling people random names to make you feel better about yourself C) Both. a troll is someone who doesnt contribute top a conversastion. I would be a troll if i simple said LOLGETALYFE</blockquote> wait a flippin minute... are you in my art class?</blockquote> Im pretty sure I sit next to you in art.</blockquote> word. that's fucked, i thought you was a troll.</blockquote> See? You're gonna score! 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:39:39-04:00 1195841 9179 2009-06-15T16:39:39-04:00 <blockquote><cite>againstbound said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> Despite you not liking it, I can and will speak my mind! I said my opinions, you have said yours. I was called a troll because: A) You dont understand english B) you like calling people random names to make you feel better about yourself C) Both. a troll is someone who doesnt contribute top a conversastion. I would be a troll if i simple said LOLGETALYFE</blockquote> wait a flippin minute... are you in my art class?</blockquote> Im pretty sure I sit next to you in art.</blockquote> word. that's fucked, i thought you was a troll.</blockquote> See? You're gonna score!</blockquote> haha, you are a wise guy. :P 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:40:27-04:00 1195851 13245 2009-06-15T16:40:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> I am interested as to who you are and how you can contribute to this website. I appreciate that you have mind of your own.</blockquote> My name is Bree, and i contributed to the topic. have you even read a post, or am i right to assume you havent learned that in school yet.</blockquote> I did not ask for your name. You are wrong,ignorant and absolutely out of place. You can go back to your cave now.</blockquote> And by saying that you are a hipocrit. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:41:29-04:00 1195891 30651 2009-06-15T16:41:29-04:00 You still owe me my shirt design. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:43:22-04:00 1195951 30651 2009-06-15T16:43:22-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> I am interested as to who you are and how you can contribute to this website. I appreciate that you have mind of your own.</blockquote> My name is Bree, and i contributed to the topic. have you even read a post, or am i right to assume you havent learned that in school yet.</blockquote> I did not ask for your name. You are wrong,ignorant and absolutely out of place. You can go back to your cave now.</blockquote> And by saying that you are a hipocrit.</blockquote> The word you are trying to use is actually hypocrite, sweetheart. I did not say a single thing that would contradict my beliefs or feelings. You should stay in school, and probably stay after as well, for extra help. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:44:25-04:00 1195971 3501 2009-06-15T16:44:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> You still owe me my shirt design.</blockquote> whatever blows your skirt up. alright kiddies, let's end this now. back on the topic of google. yeah the whole not paying shit sucks. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:44:42-04:00 1195991 13245 2009-06-15T16:46:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> I am interested as to who you are and how you can contribute to this website. I appreciate that you have mind of your own.</blockquote> My name is Bree, and i contributed to the topic. have you even read a post, or am i right to assume you havent learned that in school yet.</blockquote> I did not ask for your name. You are wrong,ignorant and absolutely out of place. You can go back to your cave now.</blockquote> And by saying that you are a hipocrit.</blockquote> The word you are trying to use is actually hypocrite, sweetheart. I did not say a single thing that would contradict my beliefs or feelings. You should stay in school, and probably stay after as well, for extra help.</blockquote> Im sorry English isnt my first language. the most eltiest self loving thing to do is correct grammar over the interwebs. and by calling me wrong and ignorant for following my right to freedom of speech, you are ignorant. by being ignoratn and calling someone ignoreant, you are a HYPOCRITE. happy? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:46:21-04:00 1196021 30651 2009-06-15T16:46:21-04:00 "A gun shot from inside the house seemed things had taken a turn for the worse" 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:49:42-04:00 1196051 2870 2009-06-15T16:49:42-04:00 The pros would call this activity "feeding the sharks", it encourages unhealthy client expectations, and more or less hurts, everyone. If a client sees someone working for free for Google they are going to think that person will work for free for them as well. Or that it's an acceptable practice to use young talent, and bypass paying a professional. Freelancers and clients need to have a little respect for each other, it just get's old having to fight for a paycheck when in every other job it's a given. If I were a client and I saw a guy or gal doing free work, I would want to hire them under the same conditions, not say let's get that free google guy on board for own however much big budget project. The artist is getting exposed as cheap sauce, not awesome sauce. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:49:44-04:00 1196061 506 2009-06-15T16:49:44-04:00 agreed with quakerninja. all the big companies, and godforbid even bands may start to expect some low rates, or freebies. that's NOT good. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:51:10-04:00 1196071 13245 2009-06-15T16:51:31-04:00 Emptees needs a spell-check ASAP! Your entrance onto this website was most definitely not a pleasant one. I highly suggest that you listen and learn before you speak out. There are many respectful/respectable artists on this website who have a lot of insight to offer. I do acknowledge your right to freedom of speech and to your own opinion, however I question the validity and reason behind it. Are you an artist? Do you have any experience in the field of graphic arts? This is why I was curious as to who you are. You asked me: "Am I right to assume you haven't learned that in school yet?" You are wrong in your assumption and ignorant to take it upon yourself to make such a statement. Your actions have clearly proved this. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:54:15-04:00 1196111 3501 2009-06-15T16:54:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> The pros would call this activity "feeding the sharks", it encourages unhealthy client expectations, and more or less hurts, everyone. If a client sees someone working for free for Google they are going to think that person will work for free for them as well. Or that it's an acceptable practice to use young talent, and bypass paying a professional. Freelancers and clients need to have a little respect for each other, it just get's old having to fight for a paycheck when in every other job it's a given. If I were a client and I saw a guy or gal doing free work, I would want to hire them under the same conditions, not say let's get that free google guy on board for own however much big budget project. The artist is getting exposed as cheap sauce, not awesome sauce.</blockquote> Agree 100% 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:56:08-04:00 1196131 3501 2009-06-15T16:56:08-04:00 I am an artist, I posted something in the June sketches thread. But despite being an artist, and my drawing "skill" that has very little to what this thread is about. Train Derailed. But it isnt hard to read, that I am agreeing with you on the CURRENT TOPIC. Think to yourself before you comment. 1) Have i read the entire post. I have people saying THE EXACT SAME THING I SAID to oppose me. 2) Do you understand what the Author is trying to say. I clearly speak english, and I'm clearly on your side. have you read that? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:58:47-04:00 1196151 30651 2009-06-15T16:58:47-04:00 I kinda like her. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T16:59:56-04:00 1196161 2870 2009-06-15T16:59:56-04:00 Why is that? 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:00:38-04:00 1196171 30651 2009-06-15T17:00:38-04:00 cuz you are a better arguer than matt.. HAHA no offense matt.. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:02:04-04:00 1196191 2870 2009-06-15T17:02:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Bree-tard said:</cite> I am an artist, I posted something in the June sketches thread. But despite being an artist, and my drawing "skill" that has very little to what this thread is about. Train Derailed. But it isnt hard to read, that I am agreeing with you on the CURRENT TOPIC. Think to yourself before you comment. 1) Have i read the entire post. I have people saying THE EXACT SAME THING I SAID to oppose me. 2) Do you understand what the Author is trying to say. I clearly speak english, and I'm clearly on your side. have you read that?</blockquote> I am well aware of the thread and its content. I am responding to the way you went about responding to a particular artist, Heavyprints. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:02:15-04:00 1196201 3501 2009-06-15T17:02:24-04:00 I agree'd with him and told him, just because you make a post about it doesn't mean its going to change anything. easiest way, Dont submit your work. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:03:18-04:00 1196231 30651 2009-06-15T17:03:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> cuz you are a better arguer than matt.. HAHA no offense matt..</blockquote> I thought so too, but didn't want to sound arrogant ;) 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:06:02-04:00 1196311 30651 2009-06-15T17:06:02-04:00 I jsut think the point of the post is to inflict some sort of standing up for artists.. and hoping artists have enough respect for themselves to stand up for what is right... obviously there are some that don't care.. obviously those arent the ones that are supporting themselves and families soley on design and illustration.. sure to each their own.. but what google is doign is pretty much bullshit.. though some won't know enough about it to not submit their art... I am sure some very talented artists will submit their art and get excepted.... they don't know any better about the industry and probably aren't making a living off it ... though that being said... Google excepting a talented artists work may have an effect on other big companies... with that in mind thinking " hey I can get free art and claim they are getting exposure while I am still profiting greatly! Artists do what they do cuz they love it and not for money, so it is ok" I think this thread was in hopes that artists would maybe be like minded and fight against it.. it is useless to keep arguing about it 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:08:01-04:00 1196361 2870 2009-06-15T17:08:01-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> I jsut think the point of the post is to inflict some sort of standing up for artists.. and hoping artists have enough respect for themselves to stand up for what is right... obviously there are some that don't care.. obviously those arent the ones that are supporting themselves and families soley on design and illustration.. sure to each their own.. but what google is doign is pretty much bullshit.. though some won't know enough about it to not submit their art... I am sure some very talented artists will submit their art and get excepted.... they don't know any better about the industry and probably aren't making a living off it ... though that being said... Google excepting a talented artists work may have an effect on other big companies... with that in mind thinking " hey I can get free art and claim they are getting exposure while I am still profiting greatly! Artists do what they do cuz they love it and not for money, so it is ok" I think this thread was in hopes that artists would maybe be like minded and fight against it.. it is useless to keep arguing about it</blockquote> Finally a well written post. I 100% agree with you! 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:09:59-04:00 1196401 30651 2009-06-15T17:09:59-04:00 None taken. I'm not trying to argue. I am just agreeing with Nick and backing him on it. Like I said before: If you don't like something, change it.(or at least try to) 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:12:10-04:00 1196431 3501 2009-06-15T17:12:10-04:00 ok so basically: - google is being a tardclan. - artists want to get paid for their hard work. - exposure is losing its meaning. also, i think if google did successfully provide a decent amount of exposure for an artist, it wouldn't really matter that much unless you're applying for a high end job. otherwise, artists who work for clothinglines/bands can't really benefit because the client (google) isn't their initial target audience. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:14:30-04:00 1196461 13245 2009-06-15T17:16:03-04:00 <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> ok so basically: - google is being a tardclan. - artists want to get paid for their hard work. - exposure is losing its meaning.</blockquote> -exposure should come from well-paid jobs, exposure and payment are supposed to be a bundle pack if the client is happy with the work. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:16:41-04:00 1196501 3643 2009-06-15T17:16:41-04:00 <blockquote><cite>inkemplete said:</cite> ok so basically: - google is being a tardclan. - artists want to get paid for their hard work. - exposure is losing its meaning. also, i think if google did successfully provide a decent amount of exposure for an artist, it wouldn't really matter that much unless you're applying for a high end job. otherwise, artists who work for clothinglines/bands can't really benefit because the client (google) isn't their initial target audience.</blockquote> I wouldn't say that exposure is losing its meaning. Being an artist is a career, like being a doctor or a school teacher. You need to get paid in order to survive. Surely, exposure can lead to receiving many new clients, but its not a promise. If art is a hobby for you and you don't plan on living off of it, then I'm sure that what Google is doing is ideal. So yes, in the eyes of us artists who do this for a living, Google is being a major tardclan. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:22:25-04:00 1196521 3501 2009-06-15T17:22:25-04:00 i think I have finally started to understand how genres of art works... such as.. commercialized illustration and design are the main things that you AREN'T doing something for yourselves.. you are working for someone .. therefore it is work worth to get paid. In money and exposure.. which exposure typically will come hand in hand when you sell a design to someone commercial who is making money off your art. they plan on having many people see it.. that shit will be in your portfolio, then you got some credibility as a desiger. Fine art graffiti are more a long the lines of getting your shit out there anyway... shit im not giving a painting away for free... but artists are doing graffiti on sides of walls for free. out in public.. so they are being exposed for free.. maybe in hopes of making money off of it? who knows what their goals are.. fine art oil paintings sculptures etc... you are trying to show that shit off all the time.. gallery shows.. internet.. you aren't gonan give it away for free though ... then again that is a genre of art where someone isn't making bank off your talent.. i do both... fien art and commercial design... I would totally donate some paintings for exposure.. and fund raising for art communities or charities.. I will go out and do a mural on a wall if someone says it is cool, because , you dont get that oppurtunity too much anyway, it is awesome to spread some culture in your town .. (unless someone is directing me on what shit should be) I'll go ahead and crack that shit out. anyway.. I don't know where I was going with this post.. I think where I was gettign at was that... when people or "clients" get in that mideset.. "artists are only doing this cuz they love it" I think that kind of mindset can really only pretain to an artist who is doign art for themselves and not for a "client" who is going to be making bank off them.. ( this may not make much sense, but I had been thinking about all these things lately.. since I am pretty new to design/clients/commercial art I am tryign to figure out how each 'genre' of art works) 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:30:02-04:00 1196571 2870 2009-06-15T17:30:02-04:00 i miss all this. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:32:04-04:00 1196611 2991 2009-06-15T17:32:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> i think I have finally started to understand how genres of art works... such as.. commercialized illustration and design are the main things that you AREN'T doing something for yourselves.. you are working for someone .. therefore it is work worth to get paid. In money and exposure.. which exposure typically will come hand in hand when you sell a design to someone commercial who is making money off your art. they plan on having many people see it.. that shit will be in your portfolio, then you got some credibility as a desiger. Fine art graffiti are more a long the lines of getting your shit out there anyway... shit im not giving a painting away for free... but artists are doing graffiti on sides of walls for free. out in public.. so they are being exposed for free.. maybe in hopes of making money off of it? who knows what their goals are.. fine art oil paintings sculptures etc... you are trying to show that shit off all the time.. gallery shows.. internet.. you aren't gonan give it away for free though ... then again that is a genre of art where someone isn't making bank off your talent.. i do both... fien art and commercial design... I would totally donate some paintings for exposure.. and fund raising for art communities or charities.. I will go out and do a mural on a wall if someone says it is cool, because , you dont get that oppurtunity too much anyway, it is awesome to spread some culture in your town .. (unless someone is directing me on what shit should be) I'll go ahead and crack that shit out. anyway.. I don't know where I was going with this post.. I think where I was gettign at was that... when people or "clients" get in that mideset.. "artists are only doing this cuz they love it" I think that kind of mindset can really only pretain to an artist who is doign art for themselves and not for a "client" who is going to be making bank off them.. ( this may not make much sense, but I had been thinking about all these things lately.. since I am pretty new to design/clients/commercial art I am tryign to figure out how each 'genre' of art works)</blockquote> You've got it, man. Check this out: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_for_art%27s_sake">Art for Art's Sake</a> versus this said by Andy Warhol: "Business art is the step that comes after Art. I started as a commercial artist, and I want to finish as a business artist." " Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art." "Why do people think artists are special? It's just another job." "I loved working when I worked at commercial art and they told you what to do and how to do it and all you had to do was correct it and they'd say yes or no. The hard thing is when you have to dream up the tasteless things to do on your own." 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:41:09-04:00 1196711 3501 2009-06-15T17:41:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Killer Napkins said:</cite> i think I have finally started to understand how genres of art works... such as.. commercialized illustration and design are the main things that you AREN'T doing something for yourselves.. you are working for someone .. therefore it is work worth to get paid. In money and exposure.. which exposure typically will come hand in hand when you sell a design to someone commercial who is making money off your art. they plan on having many people see it.. that shit will be in your portfolio, then you got some credibility as a desiger. Fine art graffiti are more a long the lines of getting your shit out there anyway... shit im not giving a painting away for free... but artists are doing graffiti on sides of walls for free. out in public.. so they are being exposed for free.. maybe in hopes of making money off of it? who knows what their goals are.. fine art oil paintings sculptures etc... you are trying to show that shit off all the time.. gallery shows.. internet.. you aren't gonan give it away for free though ... then again that is a genre of art where someone isn't making bank off your talent.. i do both... fien art and commercial design... I would totally donate some paintings for exposure.. and fund raising for art communities or charities.. I will go out and do a mural on a wall if someone says it is cool, because , you dont get that oppurtunity too much anyway, it is awesome to spread some culture in your town .. (unless someone is directing me on what shit should be) I'll go ahead and crack that shit out. anyway.. I don't know where I was going with this post.. I think where I was gettign at was that... when people or "clients" get in that mideset.. "artists are only doing this cuz they love it" I think that kind of mindset can really only pretain to an artist who is doign art for themselves and not for a "client" who is going to be making bank off them.. ( this may not make much sense, but I had been thinking about all these things lately.. since I am pretty new to design/clients/commercial art I am tryign to figure out how each 'genre' of art works)</blockquote> You've got it, man. Check this out: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_for_art%27s_sake">Art for Art's Sake</a> versus this said by Andy Warhol: "Business art is the step that comes after Art. I started as a commercial artist, and I want to finish as a business artist." " Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art." "Why do people think artists are special? It's just another job." "I loved working when I worked at commercial art and they told you what to do and how to do it and all you had to do was correct it and they'd say yes or no. The hard thing is when you have to dream up the tasteless things to do on your own."</blockquote> i hate andy warhol! 40731 Post 2009-06-15T17:56:41-04:00 1196841 13245 2009-06-15T17:56:41-04:00 me too<img src="http://www.killernapkins.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/tomato.jpg" /> makes me wanna puke 40731 Post 2009-06-15T18:04:36-04:00 1196921 2870 2009-06-15T18:04:51-04:00 He is my favorite artist! He had no shame in saying that he did art for money. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T18:06:31-04:00 1196951 3501 2009-06-15T18:06:31-04:00 anyone should after viewing this disaster. <img src="http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-abc/BMW-M1-Andy-Warhol-Art-Car-sa-lr.jpg" /> 40731 Post 2009-06-15T18:07:03-04:00 1196971 13245 2009-06-15T18:07:03-04:00 Google needs some Angray. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T18:17:33-04:00 1197081 8810 2009-06-15T18:17:33-04:00 Andy Warhol was a huge dick but I can never begrudge the fact that he really did most things right. He was really good about having a bad attitude 40731 Post 2009-06-15T18:23:16-04:00 1197121 2712 2009-06-15T18:23:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jaynajaynajayna said:</cite> Andy Warhol was a huge dick but I can never begrudge the fact that he really did most things right. He was really good about having a bad attitude</blockquote> Exactly. I have his book, The Philosophy of Andy Warhol, and its really interesting. He says a lot of things that would make you want to rethink what art is and what it means to be an artist. 40731 Post 2009-06-15T18:26:37-04:00 1197201 3501 2009-06-15T18:26:37-04:00 Andy Warhol is a con artist... not an artist. that little fucker and that bullshit jackson pollack assclown need to be bitch slapped by satan 40731 Post 2009-06-20T12:37:42-04:00 1261381 1567 2009-06-20T12:37:42-04:00 This topic is funny. 40731 Post 2009-06-20T13:00:08-04:00 1261671 4540 2009-06-20T13:00:08-04:00 stopped by the Gap the other day with the missus and noticed they had a bunch of "designer" tees on sale. the neck print had the artist's name and some slogan like, "helping to stop AIDS in Africa," or some such thing. right below that was "Made In Peru." maybe i'm a little fucked up but if you're an artist contributing to Gap in order create AIDS awareness, shouldn't you also not sell your soul and have your shit printed on sweatshop t-shirts? and no, I don't buy my clothes from Gap....the gf wanted to go there. 40731 Post 2009-06-20T13:21:02-04:00 1261891 12224 2009-06-20T13:21:02-04:00