My friend Tyler from the band Humans In Vehicles pointed me in the direction of this. Its a blog on a feminist website about some christian quotes this girl came across from using StumbleUpon. Its pretty funny, and really scary all at the same time that these people are really saying these things. Oh what the future has in store for us. http://www.allgirlarmy.org/blog/kym/2008/09/thank_god_im_an_atheist 2009-09-19T04:21:33-04:00 257 2009-04-07T23:41:10-04:00 true 0 16599 false false 51031 8975 1 2009-11-21T19:02:38-05:00 8764 two sides to everything man.. crazy serial killer rapists have claimed to be christian. a lot of crazy serial killers rapists are not. 16599 Post 2009-04-07T23:49:19-04:00 431414 1328 2009-04-07T23:49:19-04:00 "...Atheists have no value whatsoever as human beings (they're not even human, but only inhuman animals), since Atheists are nothing but miserable Liars, Cowards and Murderers, after all, why would anybody in their right mind weep over the dead rotting corpse, or bone chips and ashes (that get mixed together with those of others from the crematory) of a worthless dead Atheist? And what epitaph do you engrave on an Atheist's grave marker? "Here lies the only good Atheist, which is a dead Atheist". What else is there say? Nothing at all. No last words, no last rites, no flowers, no anything." amazing. 16599 Post 2009-04-07T23:59:07-04:00 431429 7069 2009-04-07T23:59:20-04:00 <blockquote><cite>AndrewOliv said:</cite> two sides to everything man.. crazy serial killer rapists have claimed to be christian. a lot of crazy serial killers rapists are not.</blockquote> i know dude, im just saying. its astonishing that some people really think this way. im not saying all christians are ignorant like this, because i know christians who are very logical, kind people. this is just ridiculous though. <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> "...Atheists have no value whatsoever as human beings (they're not even human, but only inhuman animals), since Atheists are nothing but miserable Liars, Cowards and Murderers, after all, why would anybody in their right mind weep over the dead rotting corpse, or bone chips and ashes (that get mixed together with those of others from the crematory) of a worthless dead Atheist? And what epitaph do you engrave on an Atheist's grave marker? "Here lies the only good Atheist, which is a dead Atheist". What else is there say? Nothing at all. No last words, no last rites, no flowers, no anything." amazing.</blockquote> yeah, that ones pretty ridiculous. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T00:04:22-04:00 431434 8975 2009-04-08T00:04:22-04:00 “Everyone knows scientists insist on using complex terminology to make it harder for True Christians to refute their claims. Deoxyribonucleic Acid, for example... sounds impressive, right? But have you ever seen what happens if you put something in acid? It dissolves! If we had all this acid in our cells, we'd all dissolve! So much for the Theory of Evolution, Check MATE!” the last bit sells it. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T00:06:34-04:00 431438 7069 2009-04-08T00:06:52-04:00 yeah, tyler posted that in a bulletin, and its what sparked my interest in where he found it. its pretty much the same thing as saying "pft, citric acid isnt real, i eat oranges everyday, how come i havent desolved yet?" 16599 Post 2009-04-08T00:07:44-04:00 431439 8975 2009-04-08T00:07:44-04:00 <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/c7a93a1bd5bd115c5f578bf18986a890.png?direct"> There will always be these type of people who are so entrenched in religion they cant see the world outside of them. Its sad, but I guess it works for them. As long as they don't try to enforce it on others (which they usually do) or hurt anyone over it I am totally fine letting them drive each other into massive paranoia of the big bad atheist coming to get them as they read the bible locked away in little villages in the mountains. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T00:20:07-04:00 431448 1140 2009-04-08T00:20:49-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/c7a93a1bd5bd115c5f578bf18986a890.png?direct"> </blockquote> hahaha, thats so awesome. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T00:22:40-04:00 431452 8975 2009-04-08T00:22:40-04:00 the future has way worse in store for us man (see Islam). though all of these posts are ridiculous, there are ideas that ALL christians share that are far more ridiculous than anything on that site. how about: - a person was dead for 3 days then came back to life - prayer works - the earth was created in 6 days 16599 Post 2009-04-08T00:28:00-04:00 431455 1106 2009-04-08T00:28:00-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> the future has way worse in store for us man (see Islam). though all of these posts are ridiculous, there are ideas that ALL christians share that are far more ridiculous than anything on that site. how about: - a person was dead for 3 days then came back to life - prayer works - the earth was created in 6 days</blockquote> As a person who has recently started studying islam(to understand it, not worship), I would honestly say it's a much more forgiving religion than christianity. So, I'm not sure where you're coming from with that. When Islam dominated government under Muhammed, people of other religious beliefs were asked to pay a tax for protection from the government. Other than that, anyone was free to worship how they pleased. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T00:42:57-04:00 431472 997 2009-04-08T00:42:57-04:00 Honestly, you can search the net day and night to dig up dirt on christians, and thats cool, if you dont like christians, do what you like till your hearts content. Just know that ANYONE who has a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ would never write such crap and disregard any non beleivers motives. That isnt what Christianity is about. This information you stumble upon is written by fake christians, therefore not even christians at all. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:07:06-04:00 431488 12477 2009-04-08T01:07:06-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Honestly, you can search the net day and night to dig up dirt on christians, and thats cool, if you dont like christians, do what you like till your hearts content. Just know that ANYONE who has a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ would never write such crap and disregard any non beleivers motives. That isnt what Christianity is about. This information you stumble upon is written by fake christians, therefore not even christians at all.</blockquote> how can you call them fake, you don't know them. are you meaning to say stupid/uninformed people cannot be christian? i promise you they can and their beliefs are just as valid and realistic as yours. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:15:49-04:00 431494 1106 2009-04-08T01:16:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Honestly, you can search the net day and night to dig up dirt on christians, and thats cool, if you dont like christians, do what you like till your hearts content. Just know that ANYONE who has a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ would never write such crap and disregard any non beleivers motives. That isnt what Christianity is about. This information you stumble upon is written by fake christians, therefore not even christians at all.</blockquote> +1 i just love atlanta braves baseball. they have opened up with 2 wins, and 5 homeruns. amazing but for religion. im not gonna say anythannnngg 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:17:36-04:00 431496 5678 2009-04-08T01:17:36-04:00 I'm christian but that article was a bad representation of us. Christians in general aren't supposed to force anything upon anyone. If someone, by chance, wants to speak about beliefs then we can talk about that in a respectful manner. However, if someone isn't interested then we're supposed to keep it moving and mind our own business. What she did was out of line. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:18:04-04:00 431497 13393 2009-04-08T01:18:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Honestly, you can search the net day and night to dig up dirt on christians, and thats cool, if you dont like christians, do what you like till your hearts content. Just know that ANYONE who has a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ would never write such crap and disregard any non beleivers motives. That isnt what Christianity is about. This information you stumble upon is written by fake christians, therefore not even christians at all.</blockquote> how can you call them fake, you don't know them. are you meaning to say stupid/uninformed people cannot be christian? i promise you they can and their beliefs are just as valid and realistic as yours.</blockquote> Ill say this in the most understandable way possible. How can you tell if a straight edge person isnt straight edge? Because they drink and smoke. How can you tell if a christian isnt christian? Because they bad mouth and put down other cultures and religions. So simple. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:26:31-04:00 431504 12477 2009-04-08T01:26:31-04:00 There are always going to be three sides when dealing with religion. The side that supports it, the side that is against it and the side that just doesn't give a shit. I don't care. If you want to be Christian, go for it. If you want to be an Atheist, do it up. Your beliefs don't affect mine. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:28:53-04:00 431508 3501 2009-04-08T01:28:53-04:00 i hope this thread doesnt blow up. that means that i will most likely read every response and become dizzy from reading so much on a computer screen 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:30:59-04:00 431511 5678 2009-04-08T01:30:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Honestly, you can search the net day and night to dig up dirt on christians, and thats cool, if you dont like christians, do what you like till your hearts content. Just know that ANYONE who has a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ would never write such crap and disregard any non beleivers motives. That isnt what Christianity is about. This information you stumble upon is written by fake christians, therefore not even christians at all.</blockquote> how can you call them fake, you don't know them. are you meaning to say stupid/uninformed people cannot be christian? i promise you they can and their beliefs are just as valid and realistic as yours.</blockquote> Ill say this in the most understandable way possible. How can you tell if a straight edge person isnt straight edge? Because they drink and smoke. How can you tell if a christian isnt christian? Because they bad mouth and put down other cultures and religions. So simple.</blockquote> good point. a person can call themselves a christian, doesn't always mean that they'll have a christian mindset and attitudes. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:32:00-04:00 431512 7360 2009-04-08T01:32:00-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Honestly, you can search the net day and night to dig up dirt on christians, and thats cool, if you dont like christians, do what you like till your hearts content. Just know that ANYONE who has a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ would never write such crap and disregard any non beleivers motives. That isnt what Christianity is about. This information you stumble upon is written by fake christians, therefore not even christians at all.</blockquote> how can you call them fake, you don't know them. are you meaning to say stupid/uninformed people cannot be christian? i promise you they can and their beliefs are just as valid and realistic as yours.</blockquote> Ill say this in the most understandable way possible. How can you tell if a straight edge person isnt straight edge? Because they drink and smoke. How can you tell if a christian isnt christian? Because they bad mouth and put down other cultures and religions. So simple.</blockquote> thank you for talking down to my level, i helps me understand your intellectual concepts mo bettah. you are acting like talking shit is a commandment. obviously it isn't. maybe they are sinners, but by your standards so are you. so how can you say they are not christian because they say things you do not agree with? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:32:26-04:00 431514 1106 2009-04-08T10:12:41-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Honestly, you can search the net day and night to dig up dirt on christians, and thats cool, if you dont like christians, do what you like till your hearts content. Just know that ANYONE who has a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ would never write such crap and disregard any non beleivers motives. That isnt what Christianity is about. This information you stumble upon is written by fake christians, therefore not even christians at all.</blockquote> how can you call them fake, you don't know them. are you meaning to say stupid/uninformed people cannot be christian? i promise you they can and their beliefs are just as valid and realistic as yours.</blockquote>> Ill say this in the most understandable way possible. How can you tell if a straight edge person isnt straight edge? Because they drink and smoke. How can you tell if a christian isnt christian? Because they bad mouth and put down other cultures and religions. So simple.</blockquote> thank you for talking down to my level, i helps me understand your intellectual concepts mo bettah. you are acting like talking shit is a commandment. obviously it isn't. maybe they are sinners, but by your standards so are you. so how can you say they are not christian because they say things you do not agree with?</blockquote> I know theyre not christians because i know my Jesus, an he has no part in what they say. And Christianity is about having a relationship with Christ. And these people making disgusting accusations against Athiests have no idea who Jesus is, because if they did, they would know that treating people like they 'arent-human' isnt Christ-like. I dont mean to be rude or hurtful in any way, im just telling you how it is from team Jesus, haha. :) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:38:32-04:00 431523 12477 2009-04-08T10:12:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> I know theyre not christians because i know my Jesus, an he has no part in what they say.</blockquote> Just like how people thought obama was a terrorist because his name has Hussein in it. Your making the same "assumption" about these people as they were about atheists. Look how many thousands of interpretations there are on the bible, the koran, etc. Their Jesus is your Jesus, they just look at him differently. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:42:13-04:00 431531 1140 2009-04-08T01:43:55-04:00 Dylanmaker, You know emptees is never the place to post religious things! Hasn't there been enough drams over the past week? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:43:15-04:00 431533 664 2009-04-08T01:46:21-04:00 If you know your Jesus, you'd know it's his place to judge who's a christian, not yours. Silly guy. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:43:16-04:00 431534 997 2009-04-08T01:43:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> If you know your Jesus, you'd know it's his place to judge who's a christian, not yours. Silly guy.</blockquote> best statement made in this post. even if it was meant as a joke. it should give him good reason to stop arguing. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:44:08-04:00 431537 7360 2009-04-08T01:46:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Honestly, you can search the net day and night to dig up dirt on christians, and thats cool, if you dont like christians, do what you like till your hearts content. Just know that ANYONE who has a legitimate relationship with Jesus Christ would never write such crap and disregard any non beleivers motives. That isnt what Christianity is about. This information you stumble upon is written by fake christians, therefore not even christians at all.</blockquote> how can you call them fake, you don't know them. are you meaning to say stupid/uninformed people cannot be christian? i promise you they can and their beliefs are just as valid and realistic as yours.</blockquote>> Ill say this in the most understandable way possible. How can you tell if a straight edge person isnt straight edge? Because they drink and smoke. How can you tell if a christian isnt christian? Because they bad mouth and put down other cultures and religions. So simple.</blockquote> thank you for talking down to my level, i helps me understand your intellectual concepts mo bettah. you are acting like talking shit is a commandment. obviously it isn't. maybe they are sinners, but by your standards so are you. so how can you say they are not christian because they say things you do not agree with?</blockquote> well unfortunately you know no more of jesus than i do. everything you know is written in a book that i have the exact same access to as yourself. what you just did was make a judgement of these people. you, as a christian, are in no place to be making judgements. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:45:17-04:00 431539 1106 2009-04-08T01:45:33-04:00 Ofcourse, what jesus does with his respective followers is his business. But these people on the other forum are vastly deceiving people, giving christians a bad name 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:45:45-04:00 431540 12477 2009-04-08T01:45:45-04:00 Their 'christianity' does not line up with the word of god. Simple. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:48:02-04:00 431544 12477 2009-04-08T01:48:02-04:00 You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:49:17-04:00 431545 7069 2009-04-08T01:49:17-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Ofcourse, what jesus does with his respective followers is his business. But these people on the other forum are vastly deceiving people, giving christians a bad name</blockquote> yes they are giving christians a bad name. also amongst the list of people giving christianity a bad name are people who: - believe the earth was created in 6 days - think a man was dead for 3 days then came back to life (zombie) - believe a man lived inside of a fish - refute the existence of dinosaurs - believe life only exists on earth - value the lives of unborn children over those of ill grown adults and so on. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:51:18-04:00 431547 1106 2009-04-08T01:51:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:51:53-04:00 431549 12477 2009-04-08T01:51:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> ah fuck are you australian? that is a whole other fucking debate. fuck. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:53:00-04:00 431551 1106 2009-04-08T01:53:00-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> <img src="http://www.karynhenley.com/BTR_images/BTRKidOnlyBiblepage.jpg" /> You're positive? Excuse me if I come off like an asshole, I just have little to no tolerance for Christianity. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:54:14-04:00 431552 7069 2009-04-08T01:54:51-04:00 One thing I always wondered about Christianity is that you arn't supposed to masturbate... but when they took Adam's rib and created Eve who he had sex with. Isn't that like having sex with yourself (also known as: masturbating?) That thought has plagued me since I heard the story way way back. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:54:22-04:00 431553 1140 2009-04-08T01:57:42-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> ah fuck are you australian? that is a whole other fucking debate. fuck.</blockquote> Haha, whys that. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:55:40-04:00 431558 12477 2009-04-08T01:55:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> <img src="http://www.karynhenley.com/BTR_images/BTRKidOnlyBiblepage.jpg" /> You're positive? Excuse me if I come off like an asshole, I just have little to no tolerance for Christianity.</blockquote> Haha, nah thats cool man. Im sure of my beleifs. :) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:58:44-04:00 431562 12477 2009-04-08T01:58:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> One thing I always wondered about Christianity is that you arn't supposed to masturbate... but when they took Adam's rib and created Eve who he had sex with. Isn't that like having sex with yourself (IE, masturbating?) That thought has plagued me since I heard the story way way back.</blockquote> laughed hard enough to go into a coughing fit... never thought of/heard that 16599 Post 2009-04-08T01:59:40-04:00 431564 7360 2009-04-08T01:59:40-04:00 I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:00:11-04:00 431565 1259 2009-04-08T02:00:11-04:00 <blockquote><cite>rabmcmlxxxvii said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> One thing I always wondered about Christianity is that you arn't supposed to masturbate... but when they took Adam's rib and created Eve who he had sex with. Isn't that like having sex with yourself (IE, masturbating?) That thought has plagued me since I heard the story way way back.</blockquote> laughed hard enough to go into a coughing fit... never thought of/heard that</blockquote> Haha, glad you enjoyed it. I have been wondering that for ages... and I am not christian so I can't go ask a priest or anything. If someone knows the answer to this please please tell me. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:01:55-04:00 431568 1140 2009-04-08T02:01:55-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> ah fuck are you australian? that is a whole other fucking debate. fuck.</blockquote> Haha, whys that.</blockquote> to level with you, im sure you are a nice dude and we could be friends. that said, i cannot just let any bullshit that gets spewed out into the vastness of the interweb go without refute. you have your beliefs, you are entitled to them, but they are more likely than not separate from reality. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:02:52-04:00 431569 1106 2009-04-08T02:02:52-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> ah fuck are you australian? that is a whole other fucking debate. fuck.</blockquote> Haha, whys that.</blockquote> to level with you, im sure you are a nice dude and we could be friends. that said, i cannot just let any bullshit that gets spewed out into the vastness of the interweb go without refute. you have your beliefs, you are entitled to them, but they are more likely than not separate from reality.</blockquote> this is has nothing to do with this debate, but a simple question to SWH why is it you can call someones beliefs stupid and separate from reality, but the second a person with those beliefs says that its wrong to be an non believer, its unacceptable? just wondering 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:06:26-04:00 431572 5678 2009-04-08T02:06:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> Thank you, sir. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:07:21-04:00 431573 3501 2009-04-08T02:07:21-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>rabmcmlxxxvii said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> One thing I always wondered about Christianity is that you arn't supposed to masturbate... but when they took Adam's rib and created Eve who he had sex with. Isn't that like having sex with yourself (IE, masturbating?) That thought has plagued me since I heard the story way way back.</blockquote> laughed hard enough to go into a coughing fit... never thought of/heard that</blockquote> Haha, glad you enjoyed it. I have been wondering that for ages... and I am not christian so I can't go ask a priest or anything. If someone knows the answer to this please please tell me.</blockquote> well someone asked the teacher (a priest) in a religion class i had in high school about why masturbation is a sin. the answer was basically because i can be grouped in with pre-marital sex and (self)abuse. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:07:29-04:00 431574 7360 2009-04-08T02:07:29-04:00 All this theism got me thinking, and I think I came up with a sweet paradox. Christians, ponder and respond: What if I were to say to you that I, as an atheist, were the second coming of Jesus? There is absolutely no positive way for you to disprove this, and your religion suggests that there will be a second coming [as far as I know], so would you accept what I say as doctrine? If so, as an infallible figure of your lord, what if I were to tell you that another infallible part of your religion [The Holy Bible] is completely false, and that every word in it is incorrect? Would you accept what I say, and live your life as an atheist based on the words of your lord? If so, would you still consider yourself a christian? If you accepted that I was the second coming, took my words as doctrine, and I told you that atheism was correct.. would you believe me and become an atheistic follower of Christ? Just to be clear, I'm not trying to form an argument or argue one side or the other, it's just a pretty nutty thought I had. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:07:40-04:00 431575 7069 2009-04-08T02:07:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> <b>WRONG!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!</b> you are a cool dude, but i will not allow you to spread such filth. I, as well as all believers of science and intellectual honesty, are completely open to the idea that any and all faiths may be right. the evidence is just not there to support their claims. science evolves with new information daily. sadly religion does not. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:07:56-04:00 431576 1106 2009-04-08T02:07:56-04:00 <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> that's not totally true.. if someone were to present solid, logical evidence that christianity is 100% valid.. I would absolutely become a follower. It's just yet to happen in the history of the religion. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:09:34-04:00 431577 7069 2009-04-08T02:09:34-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> your responses are pointless until you get an avator 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:09:35-04:00 431578 1067 2009-04-08T02:09:35-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> All this theism got me thinking, and I think I came up with a sweet paradox. Christians, ponder and respond: What if I were to say to you that I, as an atheist, were the second coming of Jesus? There is absolutely no positive way for you to disprove this, and your religion suggests that there will be a second coming [as far as I know], so would you accept what I say as doctrine? If so, as an infallible figure of your lord, what if I were to tell you that another infallible part of your religion [The Holy Bible] is completely false, and that every word in it is incorrect? Would you accept what I say, and live your life as an atheist based on the words of your lord? If so, would you still consider yourself a christian? If you accepted that I was the second coming, took my words as doctrine, and I told you that atheism was correct.. would you believe me and become an atheistic follower of Christ? Just to be clear, I'm not trying to form an argument or argue one side or the other, it's just a pretty nutty thought I had.</blockquote> you have to read the Bible to understand that one. The Bible has many signs of the second coming of Christ. It wouldnt line up the Bible. :) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:10:31-04:00 431579 5678 2009-04-08T02:10:31-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> ah fuck are you australian? that is a whole other fucking debate. fuck.</blockquote> Haha, whys that.</blockquote> to level with you, im sure you are a nice dude and we could be friends. that said, i cannot just let any bullshit that gets spewed out into the vastness of the interweb go without refute. you have your beliefs, you are entitled to them, but they are more likely than not separate from reality.</blockquote> this is has nothing to do with this debate, but a simple question to SWH why is it you can call someones beliefs stupid and separate from reality, but the second a person with those beliefs says that its wrong to be an non believer, its unacceptable? just wondering</blockquote> Levi, my man, you know exactly why i can and i do. i do not follow the christian doctrine. i was simply pointing out that a deciple of christ is in no position to cast stones. i however, am in the clear. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:11:36-04:00 431581 1106 2009-04-08T02:11:56-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> <b>WRONG!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!</b> you are a cool dude, but i will not allow you to spread such filth. I, as well as all believers of science and intellectual honesty, are completely open to the idea that any and all faiths may be right. the evidence is just not there to support their claims. science evolves with new information daily. sadly religion does not.</blockquote> if you are so open to the idea, then why would you take any chance to call a Christian a stupid person as you did above? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:11:53-04:00 431582 5678 2009-04-08T02:11:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> ah fuck are you australian? that is a whole other fucking debate. fuck.</blockquote> Haha, whys that.</blockquote> to level with you, im sure you are a nice dude and we could be friends. that said, i cannot just let any bullshit that gets spewed out into the vastness of the interweb go without refute. you have your beliefs, you are entitled to them, but they are more likely than not separate from reality.</blockquote> Well with that said im sure you can understand why i stood up against what those people said against Athiests and what not. :) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:12:29-04:00 431583 12477 2009-04-08T02:12:29-04:00 Exactly, Levi! You're dead on! [in fiction] I'm absolutely, positively the second coming of jesus, telling you that the bible is false.. so you use the words of the bible to disprove it? It can't be done! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:12:31-04:00 431584 7069 2009-04-08T02:12:31-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> You make it sound like Jesus is an actual person.</blockquote> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook, haha. :) He is very much real. :) Hes a top bloke.</blockquote> ah fuck are you australian? that is a whole other fucking debate. fuck.</blockquote> Haha, whys that.</blockquote> to level with you, im sure you are a nice dude and we could be friends. that said, i cannot just let any bullshit that gets spewed out into the vastness of the interweb go without refute. you have your beliefs, you are entitled to them, but they are more likely than not separate from reality.</blockquote> this is has nothing to do with this debate, but a simple question to SWH why is it you can call someones beliefs stupid and separate from reality, but the second a person with those beliefs says that its wrong to be an non believer, its unacceptable? just wondering</blockquote> Levi, my man, you know exactly why i can and i do. i do not follow the christian doctrine. i was simply pointing out that a deciple of christ is in no position to cast stones. i however, am in the clear.</blockquote> cool enough. i just wanted to see why you do it. thanks for the response 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:13:20-04:00 431585 5678 2009-04-08T02:13:20-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> <b>WRONG!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!</b> you are a cool dude, but i will not allow you to spread such filth. I, as well as all believers of science and intellectual honesty, are completely open to the idea that any and all faiths may be right. the evidence is just not there to support their claims. science evolves with new information daily. sadly religion does not.</blockquote> if you are so open to the idea, then why would you take any chance to call a Christian a stupid person as you did above?</blockquote> because i think you must lack information or basic cognitive abilities to: - believe the earth was created in 6 days - think a man was dead for 3 days then came back to life (zombie) - believe a man lived inside of a fish - refute the existence of dinosaurs - believe life only exists on earth - value the lives of unborn children over those of sick people and so on. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:13:37-04:00 431586 1106 2009-04-08T02:14:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> Exactly, Levi! You're dead on! [in fiction] I'm absolutely, positively the second coming of jesus, telling you that the bible is false.. so you use the words of the bible to disprove it? It can't be done!</blockquote> it can. you just said that you are the second coming. but nothing has lined up to prove it as it says it will in the Bible, so you saying that you are the second coming of Christ would just fall on deaf ears 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:14:44-04:00 431588 5678 2009-04-08T02:14:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> <b>WRONG!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!</b> you are a cool dude, but i will not allow you to spread such filth. I, as well as all believers of science and intellectual honesty, are completely open to the idea that any and all faiths may be right. the evidence is just not there to support their claims. science evolves with new information daily. sadly religion does not.</blockquote> if you are so open to the idea, then why would you take any chance to call a Christian a stupid person as you did above?</blockquote> because i think you must lack information or basic cognitive abilities to: - believe the earth was created in 6 days - think a man was dead for 3 days then came back to life (zombie) - believe a man lived inside of a fish - refute the existence of dinosaurs - believe life only exists on earth - value the lives of unborn children over those of sick people and so on.</blockquote> so your disbelief drives you to call people stupid? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:15:38-04:00 431589 5678 2009-04-08T02:15:38-04:00 I'm talking in fiction here, Levi.. I'm saying that if you ABSOLUTELY KNEW I was the second coming of jesus, regardless of what the bible says, and told you that the bible was completely false, what would you do? You can not argue that nothing lines up in the bible if Jesus is telling you that the bible is false. At that point, everything you know about the bible goes away. Also, if I was the second coming of Jesus, and you dismissed it because of what the bible says, wouldn't you be rejecting the lord? I'm not trying to form an argument, I'm talking in terms of fiction. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:19:01-04:00 431591 7069 2009-04-08T02:19:01-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> <b>WRONG!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!</b> you are a cool dude, but i will not allow you to spread such filth. I, as well as all believers of science and intellectual honesty, are completely open to the idea that any and all faiths may be right. the evidence is just not there to support their claims. science evolves with new information daily. sadly religion does not.</blockquote> if you are so open to the idea, then why would you take any chance to call a Christian a stupid person as you did above?</blockquote> because i think you must lack information or basic cognitive abilities to: - believe the earth was created in 6 days - think a man was dead for 3 days then came back to life (zombie) - believe a man lived inside of a fish - refute the existence of dinosaurs - believe life only exists on earth - value the lives of unborn children over those of sick people and so on.</blockquote> so your disbelief drives you to call people stupid?</blockquote> re-read what i said man. i never called anyone stupid. i did however take exception to the idea that stupid people could not be people of faith. they can and most certainly are. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:19:09-04:00 431592 1106 2009-04-08T02:19:09-04:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPn4v9Ak55Q 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:19:19-04:00 431593 5847 2009-04-08T02:19:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> <b>WRONG!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!</b> you are a cool dude, but i will not allow you to spread such filth. I, as well as all believers of science and intellectual honesty, are completely open to the idea that any and all faiths may be right. the evidence is just not there to support their claims. science evolves with new information daily. sadly religion does not.</blockquote> if you are so open to the idea, then why would you take any chance to call a Christian a stupid person as you did above?</blockquote> because i think you must lack information or basic cognitive abilities to: - believe the earth was created in 6 days - think a man was dead for 3 days then came back to life (zombie) - believe a man lived inside of a fish - refute the existence of dinosaurs - believe life only exists on earth - value the lives of unborn children over those of sick people and so on.</blockquote> To expect somebody that lacks basic cognitive abilities to present solid proof that the things they believe [the same things that lead you to believe that they lack reasoning skills] are true is kind of ludicrous, dude. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:22:15-04:00 431594 7069 2009-04-08T02:22:15-04:00 This forum has been taken far out of context. So ill finish with this. Hi guys, im Shane, im new to Emptees, thank you for the warm welcome. Im Australian. I scream in a band :) I enjoy it. www.myspace.com/foralleternitymusic 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:23:32-04:00 431597 12477 2009-04-08T02:23:47-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> I'm talking in fiction here, Levi.. I'm saying that if you ABSOLUTELY KNEW I was the second coming of jesus, regardless of what the bible says, and told you that the bible was completely false, what would you do? You can not argue that nothing lines up in the bible if Jesus is telling you that the bible is false. At that point, everything you know about the bible goes away. Also, if I was the second coming of Jesus, and you dismissed it because of what the bible says, wouldn't you be rejecting the lord? I'm not trying to form an argument, I'm talking in terms of fiction.</blockquote> i see what you are saying but if this was the case. i wouldnt follow you. Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God. its not a rule book, or anything like that, its a book of guidance that we can choose to follow if we like. and if you were claiming that you were Jesus, and i believed you, i would be mislead somewhere along the lines. The Bible is our way to seek guidance. so something like that would never happen. <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> <b>WRONG!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!</b> you are a cool dude, but i will not allow you to spread such filth. I, as well as all believers of science and intellectual honesty, are completely open to the idea that any and all faiths may be right. the evidence is just not there to support their claims. science evolves with new information daily. sadly religion does not.</blockquote> if you are so open to the idea, then why would you take any chance to call a Christian a stupid person as you did above?</blockquote> because i think you must lack information or basic cognitive abilities to: - believe the earth was created in 6 days - think a man was dead for 3 days then came back to life (zombie) - believe a man lived inside of a fish - refute the existence of dinosaurs - believe life only exists on earth - value the lives of unborn children over those of sick people and so on.</blockquote> so your disbelief drives you to call people stupid?</blockquote> re-read what i said man. i never called anyone stupid. i did however take exception to the idea that stupid people could not be people of faith. they can and most certainly are.</blockquote> right on. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:24:41-04:00 431598 5678 2009-04-08T02:24:41-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>collisiontheory said:</cite> I expect this thread to balloon up to 100 comments in no time. There's really no point arguing this because both parties are closed to the idea that the other person may be right.</blockquote> <b>WRONG!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!</b> you are a cool dude, but i will not allow you to spread such filth. I, as well as all believers of science and intellectual honesty, are completely open to the idea that any and all faiths may be right. the evidence is just not there to support their claims. science evolves with new information daily. sadly religion does not.</blockquote> if you are so open to the idea, then why would you take any chance to call a Christian a stupid person as you did above?</blockquote> because i think you must lack information or basic cognitive abilities to: - believe the earth was created in 6 days - think a man was dead for 3 days then came back to life (zombie) - believe a man lived inside of a fish - refute the existence of dinosaurs - believe life only exists on earth - value the lives of unborn children over those of sick people and so on.</blockquote> To expect somebody that lacks basic cognitive abilities to present solid proof that the things they believe [the same things that lead you to believe that they lack reasoning skills] are true is kind of ludicrous, dude.</blockquote> that is my point Drew. they can not present ANY proof that the things they believe are factual. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:25:02-04:00 431599 1106 2009-04-08T02:25:02-04:00 is faith real then SWH? im not trying to spark arguements or piss anyone off. i dont care what you believe because it wont ever change my beliefs, but im just trying to see exactly how open minded you are. getting to know ya :) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:25:56-04:00 431602 5678 2009-04-08T02:26:57-04:00 and to add on to what I just said, to expect that anyone so self-centered and egotistical to believe that the entire universe was created for them and them alone would ever even consider that they are not absolutely 100% correct, even when presented with perfectly logical, reasonable evidence [more logical than the idea of 'faith'] that their claims are false, is equally ludicrous. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:26:51-04:00 431605 7069 2009-04-08T02:26:51-04:00 Levi (a person i respect) to simplfy Drew's point, let me ask you the honest question that i think he was getting at... what would it take to make you believe what you think you know about god is false? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:27:27-04:00 431607 1106 2009-04-08T02:28:01-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> All this theism got me thinking, and I think I came up with a sweet paradox. Christians, ponder and respond: What if I were to say to you that I, as an atheist, were the second coming of Jesus? There is absolutely no positive way for you to disprove this, and your religion suggests that there will be a second coming [as far as I know], so would you accept what I say as doctrine? If so, as an infallible figure of your lord, what if I were to tell you that another infallible part of your religion [The Holy Bible] is completely false, and that every word in it is incorrect? Would you accept what I say, and live your life as an atheist based on the words of your lord? If so, would you still consider yourself a christian? If you accepted that I was the second coming, took my words as doctrine, and I told you that atheism was correct.. would you believe me and become an atheistic follower of Christ? Just to be clear, I'm not trying to form an argument or argue one side or the other, it's just a pretty nutty thought I had.</blockquote> kinda reminded me of something a friend asked a religion teacher in high school. "how do we really know Jesus was the real messiah, because if not then we should all still be Jewish, and by following this possible false idle then aren't we in going to hell". unfortunately i don't remember the answer (or if she even got one) on the other hand a priest who was a teacher at the school had a good argument. 'you can either believe God exist or doesn't. if you believe he exists then you'll most likely lived and moral (and therefore good) life as outlined my your religion. if you don't then you'll most likely lead an amoral or unmoral life (i personally don't agree with that part). if God does exist then the person that doesn't believe will be damn for eternity (supposedly). where if God doesn't exist then the person that doesn't believe and the one that does believe in terms of there life being over and nothing after it. except the person the believe (will supposedly) have lead a good life and will be remembered for that, and in a sense will still have some form of afterlife. hope that makes some sense 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:29:46-04:00 431610 7360 2009-04-08T02:29:46-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite>i see what you are saying but if this was the case. i wouldnt follow you. Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God. its not a rule book, or anything like that, its a book of guidance that we can choose to follow if we like. and if you were claiming that you were Jesus, and i believed you, i would be mislead somewhere along the lines. The Bible is our way to seek guidance. so something like that would never happen.</blockquote> It's a paradox, dude.. don't let the way you live your life now get in the way of your imagination. I'm just saying that in this particular fictional situation, to follow the bible would be rejecting God, and to be an atheist would be to be a follower of Christ. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:31:26-04:00 431613 7069 2009-04-08T02:31:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> Levi (a person i respect) to simplfy Drew's point, let me ask you the honest question that i think he was getting at... what would it take to make you believe what you think you know about god is false?</blockquote> I dont base my beliefs off of facts my friend. I base my beliefs based on things that I feel. You will never understand it because you wont believe it. and that is completely fine with me. you are my equal and i will never judge you. i will just hope that you can have the same happiness i have. thats all. so really nothing will change my mind. and thanks for pointing out that you respect me. i thought you hated me haha 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:31:34-04:00 431615 5678 2009-04-08T02:31:34-04:00 Levi, yes i do believe in faith 100%. faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. people believe things on bad evidence all the time. if i told you there was a giant diamond buried in your backyard and you believed me, that is a matter of faith. faith is a real thing, i agree with you. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:31:43-04:00 431617 1106 2009-04-08T02:31:43-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> Levi, yes i do believe in faith 100%. faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. people believe things on bad evidence all the time. if i told you there was a giant diamond buried in your backyard and you believed me, that is a matter of faith. faith is a real thing, i agree with you.</blockquote> faith is a real thing. just like you believe that im real, yet you have never seen me, at least i think :\, i believe in Christ, but i have never seen him. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:34:45-04:00 431619 5678 2009-04-08T02:34:45-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> Levi (a person i respect) to simplfy Drew's point, let me ask you the honest question that i think he was getting at... what would it take to make you believe what you think you know about god is false?</blockquote> I dont base my beliefs off of facts my friend. I base my beliefs based on things that I feel. You will never understand it because you wont believe it. and that is completely fine with me. you are my equal and i will never judge you. i will just hope that you can have the same happiness i have. thats all. so really nothing will change my mind. and thanks for pointing out that you respect me. i thought you hated me haha</blockquote> i absolutely do not hate you at all man. everytime these debates spring up i think you handle yourself with the utmost class and dignity. however not basing beliefs on facts and rather feelings is what girlfriends do, and that is BS. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:34:50-04:00 431620 1106 2009-04-08T02:34:50-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite>i see what you are saying but if this was the case. i wouldnt follow you. Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God. its not a rule book, or anything like that, its a book of guidance that we can choose to follow if we like. and if you were claiming that you were Jesus, and i believed you, i would be mislead somewhere along the lines. The Bible is our way to seek guidance. so something like that would never happen.</blockquote> It's a paradox, dude.. don't let the way you live your life now get in the way of your imagination. I'm just saying that in this particular fictional situation, to follow the bible would be rejecting God, and to be an atheist would be to be a follower of Christ.</blockquote> dude, i completely see what youre saying, and understand you. im just answering you. no i wouldnt follow you, so i guess based on your paradox, then i would be wrong 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:35:31-04:00 431623 5678 2009-04-08T02:35:31-04:00 Heres a scientific question for the evolution beleivers. Is it a scientific fact that 'Genetically no new infomation is ever created, it is only lost' Is that a true statement? My teaching through school was that you can’t create new genitic materal. And if that is the case and we evovled from single celled organisms then where did all our genetic infomation come from? I think thats a fair call. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:36:30-04:00 431625 12477 2009-04-08T02:36:30-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> Levi, yes i do believe in faith 100%. faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. people believe things on bad evidence all the time. if i told you there was a giant diamond buried in your backyard and you believed me, that is a matter of faith. faith is a real thing, i agree with you.</blockquote> faith is a real thing. just like you believe that im real, yet you have never seen me, at least i think :\, i believe in Christ, but i have never seen him.</blockquote> but the simple fact that you believe does not make him real. that would be to say that me not believing in something makes it untrue. belief is separate from fact. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:37:01-04:00 431627 1106 2009-04-08T02:37:01-04:00 Is anyone going to change their beliefs from this debate? Honest question. Any honest answers are appreciated. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:37:09-04:00 431628 3501 2009-04-08T02:37:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Chaddoesdesign said:</cite> Dylanmaker, You know emptees is never the place to post religious things! Hasn't there been enough drams over the past week?</blockquote> sorry chad, i honestly wasnt trying to start a religious war or anything. i just wanted to know how people feel about such ignorant things being said. if anyone thought i was, i am in no way trying to bash christianity, or any other religion. i know religious people who arent like this at all, so im not making any kind of generalization about religious people. when i posted this it was because i wanted to see how people felt about the things they said, and maybe see if anyone could come up with some super funny shit to say, i was in no way trying to start religious drama. ill delete this post asap if it would make people feel better. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:37:19-04:00 431629 8975 2009-04-08T02:37:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> Levi (a person i respect) to simplfy Drew's point, let me ask you the honest question that i think he was getting at... what would it take to make you believe what you think you know about god is false?</blockquote> I dont base my beliefs off of facts my friend. I base my beliefs based on things that I feel. You will never understand it because you wont believe it. and that is completely fine with me. you are my equal and i will never judge you. i will just hope that you can have the same happiness i have. thats all. so really nothing will change my mind. and thanks for pointing out that you respect me. i thought you hated me haha</blockquote> i absolutely do not hate you at all man. everytime these debates spring up i think you handle yourself with the utmost class and dignity. however not basing beliefs on facts and rather feelings is what girlfriends do, and that is BS.</blockquote> well thank ya, i try to. and i guess this is where we hit a brick wall. its something that i will always hold true to, and something you wont ever hold true to. this is why religious debates always fail 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:37:21-04:00 431630 5678 2009-04-08T02:37:21-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite>i see what you are saying but if this was the case. i wouldnt follow you. Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God. its not a rule book, or anything like that, its a book of guidance that we can choose to follow if we like. and if you were claiming that you were Jesus, and i believed you, i would be mislead somewhere along the lines. The Bible is our way to seek guidance. so something like that would never happen.</blockquote> It's a paradox, dude.. don't let the way you live your life now get in the way of your imagination. I'm just saying that in this particular fictional situation, to follow the bible would be rejecting God, and to be an atheist would be to be a follower of Christ.</blockquote> dude, i completely see what youre saying, and understand you. im just answering you. no i wouldnt follow you, so i guess based on your paradox, then i would be wrong</blockquote> HERETIC! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:38:02-04:00 431632 7069 2009-04-08T02:38:02-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Is anyone going to change their beliefs from this debate? Honest question. Any honest answers are appreciated.</blockquote> if new information is presented to me i very well may change my beliefs, yes. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:38:15-04:00 431633 1106 2009-04-08T02:38:15-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Heres a scientific question for the evolution beleivers. Is it a scientific fact that 'Genetically no new infomation is ever created, it is only lost' Is that a true statement? My teaching through school was that you can't create new genitic materal. And if that is the case and we evovled from single celled organisums then where did all our genetic infomation come from? I think thats a fair call.</blockquote> i'm pretty sure that you missed something that day in class or your teacher forgot it, but new material is created while others are lost (or better yet suppressed). an before you question what side i'm on with this, i'm a scientific illustration major (means i took all the courses needed for pre-med) and a devote roman catholic. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:39:26-04:00 431634 7360 2009-04-08T02:39:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Is anyone going to change their beliefs from this debate? Honest question. Any honest answers are appreciated.</blockquote> Like both I and Yardley have said, if someone can come forth with solid, logical, fact-based evidence that christianity is 100% legit.. all of us atheists or agnostics would become believers. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:39:26-04:00 431635 7069 2009-04-08T02:39:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite>i see what you are saying but if this was the case. i wouldnt follow you. Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God. its not a rule book, or anything like that, its a book of guidance that we can choose to follow if we like. and if you were claiming that you were Jesus, and i believed you, i would be mislead somewhere along the lines. The Bible is our way to seek guidance. so something like that would never happen.</blockquote> It's a paradox, dude.. don't let the way you live your life now get in the way of your imagination. I'm just saying that in this particular fictional situation, to follow the bible would be rejecting God, and to be an atheist would be to be a follower of Christ.</blockquote> dude, i completely see what youre saying, and understand you. im just answering you. no i wouldnt follow you, so i guess based on your paradox, then i would be wrong</blockquote> HERETIC!</blockquote> :) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:40:56-04:00 431637 5678 2009-04-08T02:40:56-04:00 Well, there are things the Bible has mentioned that have been confirmed by observable evidence... 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:42:51-04:00 431639 13393 2009-04-08T02:42:51-04:00 Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:43:24-04:00 431641 997 2009-04-08T02:43:24-04:00 One new big flaw I see with christianity [and maybe religion as a whole] is that basing what you think on faith is an essential part of being christian. So it seems that the deciding factor of whether or not you're religious is; A. were you brought up to go with your gut? or B. were you brought up to think logically? Personally, if I went with faith, I'd have to go with Asatru. <img src="https://www.wizards.com/global/images/ah_article_ah20040618a_pic1_en.jpg" /> fuckin' Thor, dude. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:43:43-04:00 431643 7069 2009-04-08T02:43:43-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jnoon said:</cite> Well, there are things the Bible has mentioned that have been confirmed by observable evidence...</blockquote> list 'em. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:44:25-04:00 431645 7069 2009-04-08T02:44:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jnoon said:</cite> Well, there are things the Bible has mentioned that have been confirmed by observable evidence...</blockquote> actually, this is true. some things the bible has mentioned have been confirmed by physical evidence. does that make Jesus the son of god? some things <i>Green Eggs and Ham</i> mentions have been confirmed by physical evidence. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:45:39-04:00 431648 1106 2009-04-08T02:45:39-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:45:54-04:00 431649 5678 2009-04-08T02:45:54-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Is anyone going to change their beliefs from this debate? Honest question. Any honest answers are appreciated.</blockquote> Like both I and Yardley have said, if someone can come forth with solid, logical, fact-based evidence that christianity is 100% legit.. all of us atheists or agnostics would become believers.</blockquote> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Is anyone going to change their beliefs from this debate? Honest question. Any honest answers are appreciated.</blockquote> if new information is presented to me i very well may change my beliefs, yes.</blockquote> I'm not sure how old you are(both of you dudes) but I know you're both very close to my age--has there been any new tangible and solid information that cannot be proven wrong? I believe its very unlikely for use to discover anything soon. I mean we are far from knowing everything about how our own bodies function and how to cure diseases such as cancer. How could we engage in a subject which is far more intricate than our physical beings at this point of humanity? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:46:12-04:00 431651 3501 2009-04-08T02:46:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> yes it says no ill thoughts. why is the act of private masturbation "ill"? not arguing, just asking. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:47:00-04:00 431653 1106 2009-04-08T02:47:00-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Is anyone going to change their beliefs from this debate? Honest question. Any honest answers are appreciated.</blockquote> Like both I and Yardley have said, if someone can come forth with solid, logical, fact-based evidence that christianity is 100% legit.. all of us atheists or agnostics would become believers.</blockquote> as i'm sure any logical person would go either way if there was 100% evidence for the other view point. also i don't think there will ever be 100% evidence for either side. here's a paradox for the 100% stuff. by saying that there are no absolutes then that statement would be an absolute, proving the statement wrong. so by default some things must be absolute. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:47:58-04:00 431654 7360 2009-04-08T02:47:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Is anyone going to change their beliefs from this debate? Honest question. Any honest answers are appreciated.</blockquote> Like both I and Yardley have said, if someone can come forth with solid, logical, fact-based evidence that christianity is 100% legit.. all of us atheists or agnostics would become believers.</blockquote> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Is anyone going to change their beliefs from this debate? Honest question. Any honest answers are appreciated.</blockquote> if new information is presented to me i very well may change my beliefs, yes.</blockquote> I'm not sure how old you are(both of you dudes) but I know you're both very close to my age--has there been any new tangible and solid information that cannot be proven wrong? I believe its very unlikely for use to discover anything soon. I mean we are far from knowing everything about how our own bodies function and how to cure diseases such as cancer. How could we engage in a subject which is far more intricate than our physical beings at this point of humanity?</blockquote> Matt, with all due respect, i can confidently debate the non-existence of the supernatural. just because the opposition cannot produce the factual evidence that science can does not mean i should forfeit the debate. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:49:15-04:00 431657 1106 2009-04-08T02:49:15-04:00 .........ok 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:50:42-04:00 431658 13393 2009-04-08T02:50:42-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:50:55-04:00 431659 997 2009-04-08T02:50:55-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> deals with lust and pride (supposedly the worst of the deadly sins) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:50:55-04:00 431660 7360 2009-04-08T02:50:55-04:00 well believing in God, and following God is completely different. So if you were to say that you believe he exist wouldnt really do much. its following him that matters to the Christian world but i would NEVER EVER try to give you facts, its not about facts, at all. its about truely believing, and its about the day that you give your life to Christ. trust me, i was in the same boat. i didnt believe there could be anything like Christ, ever, but my world was rocked. you can say that i am believing the wrong thing, or i was caught up in the moment in church, but the truth is that i was in my room reading a car magazine when i decided to live my life for him. its nothing you would understand, nor i would expect you to. its actually impossible for you to because you havent experienced it. and if you choose not to, then thats you. not me. i wouldnt judge you for it, or try to change you. im not here to change your ways. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:51:49-04:00 431661 5678 2009-04-08T02:51:49-04:00 Yardley, from what I gather...you are saying that you can say there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence of such entities. Couldn't those who believe in the supernatural confidently say that it does exist because science cannot prove the entities don't exist? I'm honestly not picking a side because I have exercised both thoughts a fair amount and I cannot come up with an answer which is no more than a belief or speculation. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:53:38-04:00 431664 3501 2009-04-08T02:53:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:53:38-04:00 431665 5678 2009-04-08T02:53:38-04:00 DG, For Example... In the Bible it says "The universe is expanding". Idk if you have a bible but if you do, check Job 9:8, Isaiah 42:5, or Jeremiah 51:15. Repeatedly God declares that He stretches out the heavens (aka the universe or outer space. whatever u wanna call it). During the early 20th century, most scientists (including Einstein) believed the universe was static. Others believed it should have collapsed due to gravity. Then in 1929, astronomer Edwin Hubble showed that distant galaxies were receding from the earth, and the further away they were, the faster they were moving. This discovery revolutionized the field of astronomy. Einstein later admitted his mistake. Pretty much, astronomers later confirmed what was already written in the bible from long ago. That's If you believe that the bible was written thousands of years ago like I do. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:57:17-04:00 431671 13393 2009-04-08T02:57:17-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> wish i could answer that for you but it's a combination of theology and psychology that i just don't fully understand. i think it deals with the nature of the thoughts, if no one is being harm then its okay. also there is a perceived harm that comes with pre-marital sex. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:57:41-04:00 431674 7360 2009-04-08T02:57:41-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to</blockquote> yeah, so lets assume you do your research and you find that the bible says its NOT ok. do you personally think he should be punnished for doing it? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T02:58:51-04:00 431679 1106 2009-04-08T02:58:51-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to</blockquote> yeah, so lets assume you do your research and you find that the bible says its NOT ok. do you personally think he should be punnished for doing it?</blockquote> well now you are tapping into my beliefs. i do believe that sin should be punished, but im not saying he should be hurt, or his life suck or anything like that. sin takes you to hell. thats the punishment of sin. so yes, but you cant say im saying he should be looked down upon or anything. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:01:31-04:00 431683 5678 2009-04-08T03:01:31-04:00 I won't even try to read. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:01:33-04:00 431684 10367 2009-04-08T03:01:33-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so to say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:02:17-04:00 431686 1140 2009-04-08T03:03:05-04:00 We all have different beliefs and different ways of life. And as a christian, I believe I can respectfully disagree. I don't expect for people to be convinced by what I say I believe in. All I can do is stand by my thoughts and beliefs (as anyone else would). 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:02:25-04:00 431687 13393 2009-04-08T03:02:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, from what I gather...you are saying that you can say there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence of such entities. Couldn't those who believe in the supernatural confidently say that it does exist because science cannot prove the entities don't exist? I'm honestly not picking a side because I have exercised both thoughts a fair amount and I cannot come up with an answer which is no more than a belief or speculation.</blockquote> in any debate, religious or not, those making extraordinary claims have the burden of producing extraordinary proof. if i say bananas are yellow i am not required to present overwhelming evidence to support this claim, i have, well... bananas. if i however say that bananas are purple, i better fucking produce some purple bananas or else what i say is meaningless. regardless of if i have been raised to believe bananas are purple. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:02:45-04:00 431689 1106 2009-04-08T03:02:45-04:00 ...susej 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:02:45-04:00 431690 303 2009-04-08T03:02:45-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did... 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:03:52-04:00 431691 5678 2009-04-08T03:03:52-04:00 this thread is going to change my life 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:05:46-04:00 431695 4413 2009-04-08T03:05:46-04:00 <blockquote><cite>jnoon said:</cite> DG, For Example... In the Bible it says "The universe is expanding". Idk if you have a bible but if you do, check Job 9:8, Isaiah 42:5, or Jeremiah 51:15. Repeatedly God declares that He stretches out the heavens (aka the universe or outer space. whatever u wanna call it). During the early 20th century, most scientists (including Einstein) believed the universe was static. Others believed it should have collapsed due to gravity. Then in 1929, astronomer Edwin Hubble showed that distant galaxies were receding from the earth, and the further away they were, the faster they were moving. This discovery revolutionized the field of astronomy. Einstein later admitted his mistake. Pretty much, astronomers later confirmed what was already written in the bible from long ago. That's If you believe that the bible was written thousands of years ago like I do.</blockquote> how many thousands of years ago are we talking about? I mean, thousands of years before the early 20th century, there were lots of dudes looking up at the sky trying to figure it out. For all we know, some dude figured it out, and that information was lost except for in the bible.. it's a stretch, but there may have been someone before. To be clear, I don't know hardly anything about this stuff other than what I think up or have heard, or read on the internet.. and I don't think that between religion or science, one is necessarily better than the other.. it's just that religion refuses to give me solid evidence that it is fact. I choose to base what I think on logic and reasoning, and for all I know, logic and reasoning is the wrong way to go about things. I'll either know when I die, or I'll never know at all.. until then, all I can do is continue thinking about it the way that I do. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:06:27-04:00 431697 7069 2009-04-08T03:06:27-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to</blockquote> yeah, so lets assume you do your research and you find that the bible says its NOT ok. do you personally think he should be punnished for doing it?</blockquote> well now you are tapping into my beliefs. i do believe that sin should be punished, but im not saying he should be hurt, or his life suck or anything like that. sin takes you to hell. thats the punishment of sin. so yes, but you cant say im saying he should be looked down upon or anything.</blockquote> no no no, i am not at all talking about judgement on earth. but if your basis of belief (the bible) was to say that a man who masturbates thinking about his wife is a sinner, and sin takes you to hell, then according to your god, he should suffer eternity in hell for doing that? again just asking, not AT ALL arguing. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:06:30-04:00 431698 1106 2009-04-08T03:11:12-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:07:59-04:00 431700 7069 2009-04-08T03:07:59-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to</blockquote> yeah, so lets assume you do your research and you find that the bible says its NOT ok. do you personally think he should be punnished for doing it?</blockquote> well now you are tapping into my beliefs. i do believe that sin should be punished, but im not saying he should be hurt, or his life suck or anything like that. sin takes you to hell. thats the punishment of sin. so yes, but you cant say im saying he should be looked down upon or anything.</blockquote> no no no, i am not at all talking about judgement on earth. but if your basis of belief (the bible) was to say that a man who masturbates thinking about his wife is a sinner, and sin takes you to hell, then according to your god, he should suffer eternity in hell for doing that? again just asking, not AT ALL arguing.</blockquote> i think i just misunderstood the question. and i as i told heavy prints. i dont fully understand it. i have to read about it. and as foolish as it may sound to you, pray about it. its something that i actually would like to know now because i dont understand it either. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:09:51-04:00 431702 5678 2009-04-08T03:09:51-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>jnoon said:</cite> DG, For Example... In the Bible it says "The universe is expanding". Idk if you have a bible but if you do, check Job 9:8, Isaiah 42:5, or Jeremiah 51:15. Repeatedly God declares that He stretches out the heavens (aka the universe or outer space. whatever u wanna call it). During the early 20th century, most scientists (including Einstein) believed the universe was static. Others believed it should have collapsed due to gravity. Then in 1929, astronomer Edwin Hubble showed that distant galaxies were receding from the earth, and the further away they were, the faster they were moving. This discovery revolutionized the field of astronomy. Einstein later admitted his mistake. Pretty much, astronomers later confirmed what was already written in the bible from long ago. That's If you believe that the bible was written thousands of years ago like I do.</blockquote> how many thousands of years ago are we talking about? I mean, thousands of years before the early 20th century, there were lots of dudes looking up at the sky trying to figure it out. For all we know, some dude figured it out, and that information was lost except for in the bible.. it's a stretch, but there may have been someone before. To be clear, I don't know hardly anything about this stuff other than what I think up or have heard, or read on the internet.. and I don't think that between religion or science, one is necessarily better than the other.. it's just that religion refuses to give me solid evidence that it is fact. I choose to base what I think on logic and reasoning, and for all I know, logic and reasoning is the wrong way to go about things. I'll either know when I die, or I'll never know at all.. until then, all I can do is continue thinking about it the way that I do.</blockquote> ......cool. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:10:05-04:00 431703 13393 2009-04-08T03:10:05-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> i know there are creatures described in Job that fit the description of dinosaurs. not really sure of chapters or verses or even if that's what he's talking about 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:10:42-04:00 431704 7360 2009-04-08T03:10:42-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to</blockquote> yeah, so lets assume you do your research and you find that the bible says its NOT ok. do you personally think he should be punnished for doing it?</blockquote> well now you are tapping into my beliefs. i do believe that sin should be punished, but im not saying he should be hurt, or his life suck or anything like that. sin takes you to hell. thats the punishment of sin. so yes, but you cant say im saying he should be looked down upon or anything.</blockquote> no no no, i am not at all talking about judgement on earth. but if your basis of belief (the bible) was to say that a man who masturbates thinking about his wife is a sinner, and sin takes you to hell, then according to your god, he should suffer eternity in hell for doing that? again just asking, not AT ALL arguing.</blockquote> i think i just misunderstood the question. and i as i told heavy prints. i dont fully understand it. i have to read about it. and as foolish as it may sound to you, pray about it. its something that i actually would like to know now because i dont understand it either.</blockquote> personally i think you are a good person and would clearly deem an eternity of suffering a ridiculous punishment for something so trivial. my point about religion is that, it is the only thing that could make the idea of such a punishment for such an insignificant offense acceptable. i don't really think there is much to think about here. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:10:56-04:00 431705 1106 2009-04-08T03:11:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> I know they are in there, I guess I worded that wrong. In the timeline of the "world" we have scientifically proven that they were long gone before we got here. But in the bible doesn't it bring it up as if they were around in the 7 days that the world was created. I guess its the jumping around on the "earth" time line and that contrast between what has been proven and what was written that really confuses me. The only explanation I have gotten on this is that "Gods" timeline is 1,000,000's of years = 1 human day.. but then why say the world was created in 7 days if it took God 1,000,000's of years? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:11:04-04:00 431706 1140 2009-04-08T03:12:38-04:00 there's a whole other bunch of forum posts with this topic. A lot of what's being said was already said. Let's all just sit around and hold each others hands virtually and sing Kumbaya instead? http://emptees.com/talk/chat?search=religion&person=&filter=chat&order= 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:11:11-04:00 431707 303 2009-04-08T03:11:11-04:00 so does this also effect the people that believe in satan? and are satanics? no one seems to ever mention them. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:11:19-04:00 431708 4413 2009-04-08T03:11:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> If you're serious about that question, I think I can point it out... 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:11:34-04:00 431709 13393 2009-04-08T03:11:34-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, from what I gather...you are saying that you can say there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence of such entities. Couldn't those who believe in the supernatural confidently say that it does exist because science cannot prove the entities don't exist? I'm honestly not picking a side because I have exercised both thoughts a fair amount and I cannot come up with an answer which is no more than a belief or speculation.</blockquote> in any debate, religious or not, those making extraordinary claims have the burden of producing extraordinary proof. if i say bananas are yellow i am not required to present overwhelming evidence to support this claim, i have, well... bananas. if i however say that bananas are purple, i better fucking produce some purple bananas or else what i say is meaningless. regardless of if i have been raised to believe bananas are purple.</blockquote> I completely understand where you're coming from and you happened to name my favorite food. Although bananas are green and brown as well! I just believe that the validity/non-validity of God/No God is exactly the same. One believes in something that is not based on proof while the other believes in something that actually exists. Faith vs. Fact While faith lacks evidence of existence,fact lacks evidence of non-existence. We have yet to prove the possibility invalid. Love this topic! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:13:11-04:00 431712 3501 2009-04-08T03:14:24-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> Job 40:15–24 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. 16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. 17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. 18 His bones are like beams of .. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:13:40-04:00 431713 5678 2009-04-08T03:13:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>JacobPlague said:</cite> so does this also effect the people that believe in satan? and are satanics? no one seems to ever mention them.</blockquote> no one really practices traditional satanism anymore, and new satanism really isn't theistic at all. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:14:01-04:00 431714 7069 2009-04-08T03:14:01-04:00 i would also like to add that a lot of people when talking about religion (on either side) assume the the bible to be infallible. even most priest and theologians will agree that it isn't it was written my men (or women, who really knows) and was changed over time from oral tradition and translations from language to language. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:16:04-04:00 431715 7360 2009-04-08T03:16:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to</blockquote> yeah, so lets assume you do your research and you find that the bible says its NOT ok. do you personally think he should be punnished for doing it?</blockquote> well now you are tapping into my beliefs. i do believe that sin should be punished, but im not saying he should be hurt, or his life suck or anything like that. sin takes you to hell. thats the punishment of sin. so yes, but you cant say im saying he should be looked down upon or anything.</blockquote> no no no, i am not at all talking about judgement on earth. but if your basis of belief (the bible) was to say that a man who masturbates thinking about his wife is a sinner, and sin takes you to hell, then according to your god, he should suffer eternity in hell for doing that? again just asking, not AT ALL arguing.</blockquote> i think i just misunderstood the question. and i as i told heavy prints. i dont fully understand it. i have to read about it. and as foolish as it may sound to you, pray about it. its something that i actually would like to know now because i dont understand it either.</blockquote> personally i think you are a good person and would clearly deem an eternity of suffering a ridiculous punishment for something so trivial. my point about religion is that, it is the only thing that could make the idea of such a punishment for such an insignificant offense acceptable. i don't really think there is much to think about here.</blockquote> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:16:17-04:00 431716 5678 2009-04-08T03:16:17-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> Job 40:15–24 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. 16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. 17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. 18 His bones are like beams of ..</blockquote> dude this is ridiculous and you know it. not only does it not clearly say anything about enormous reptiles anywhere in the bible (which should be an enormous portion of the old testament) it says that the "behemoth" or "leviathan" lived with humans which dinosaurs clearly did not EVER live within millions of years of people. weak sauce. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:17:35-04:00 431717 1106 2009-04-08T03:17:45-04:00 Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:18:50-04:00 431718 1140 2009-04-08T03:20:06-04:00 Is it that time of week again? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:19:22-04:00 431719 1555 2009-04-08T03:19:22-04:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2cmdfoy0v4&feature=channel_page 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:19:57-04:00 431720 12825 2009-04-08T03:19:57-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to</blockquote> yeah, so lets assume you do your research and you find that the bible says its NOT ok. do you personally think he should be punnished for doing it?</blockquote> well now you are tapping into my beliefs. i do believe that sin should be punished, but im not saying he should be hurt, or his life suck or anything like that. sin takes you to hell. thats the punishment of sin. so yes, but you cant say im saying he should be looked down upon or anything.</blockquote> no no no, i am not at all talking about judgement on earth. but if your basis of belief (the bible) was to say that a man who masturbates thinking about his wife is a sinner, and sin takes you to hell, then according to your god, he should suffer eternity in hell for doing that? again just asking, not AT ALL arguing.</blockquote> i think i just misunderstood the question. and i as i told heavy prints. i dont fully understand it. i have to read about it. and as foolish as it may sound to you, pray about it. its something that i actually would like to know now because i dont understand it either.</blockquote> personally i think you are a good person and would clearly deem an eternity of suffering a ridiculous punishment for something so trivial. my point about religion is that, it is the only thing that could make the idea of such a punishment for such an insignificant offense acceptable. i don't really think there is much to think about here.</blockquote> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> correct, we don't agree that a sin is a sin. i DO NOT believe that Heavyprints J'ing off over his wife is the same as killing someone. i DO NOT believe that Heavyprints J'ing off to his wife is even the same as someone keying a car. that is a ridiculous concept that "a sin is a sin is a sin" 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:20:18-04:00 431721 1106 2009-04-08T03:20:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Enclothe said:</cite> Is it that time of week again?</blockquote> Better to debate a question without settling it than settling a question without debating it! This is a community full of artists with individualistic beliefs. Of course its that time of the week! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:22:14-04:00 431722 3501 2009-04-08T03:22:14-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that.</blockquote> dude, that shit is over your head man, only god can forgive that shit. it is all too human to think that its wrong not to forgive people like hitler or bin laden. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:22:15-04:00 431723 1106 2009-04-08T03:22:28-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Can someone explain to my why Masturbation is wrong? Exactly how can it be grouped with Premarital Sex and Self Abuse? Premarital sex would involve.. sexual intercourse. Which masturbation is not. Abuse implies something being injurious or offensive. I am neither injured or offended by jerking off. Also, I have heard people say it's because you're wasting the "seed" god gave you to make children with. Which, you can get a vasectomy.. so you don't lose any "seed" when you ejaculate. So, as long as there's no swimmers, am I good to beat off? ... I can honestly understand why the bible disagrees with sex outside of wedlock. I mean, STD's would have been non-existent if there was no way to spread them. That makes sense. Masurbation, however, I see no reason.</blockquote> its the thought. the Bible says to have no ill thoughts in your mind. just answering you, not trying to argue</blockquote> I'm married. The bible is super-ok with me thinking about banging my wife. I mean, in the bible, God invented banging your wife. I don't think that constitutes ill thought.</blockquote> i honestly cant answer you on that. but i can do research and email you the answer if you would allow me to</blockquote> yeah, so lets assume you do your research and you find that the bible says its NOT ok. do you personally think he should be punnished for doing it?</blockquote> well now you are tapping into my beliefs. i do believe that sin should be punished, but im not saying he should be hurt, or his life suck or anything like that. sin takes you to hell. thats the punishment of sin. so yes, but you cant say im saying he should be looked down upon or anything.</blockquote> no no no, i am not at all talking about judgement on earth. but if your basis of belief (the bible) was to say that a man who masturbates thinking about his wife is a sinner, and sin takes you to hell, then according to your god, he should suffer eternity in hell for doing that? again just asking, not AT ALL arguing.</blockquote> i think i just misunderstood the question. and i as i told heavy prints. i dont fully understand it. i have to read about it. and as foolish as it may sound to you, pray about it. its something that i actually would like to know now because i dont understand it either.</blockquote> personally i think you are a good person and would clearly deem an eternity of suffering a ridiculous punishment for something so trivial. my point about religion is that, it is the only thing that could make the idea of such a punishment for such an insignificant offense acceptable. i don't really think there is much to think about here.</blockquote> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> every sin is treated in differently, in both punishment and forgiveness 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:22:45-04:00 431724 7360 2009-04-08T03:22:45-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> Job 40:15–24 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. 16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. 17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. 18 His bones are like beams of ..</blockquote> dude this is ridiculous and you know it. not only does it not clearly say anything about enormous reptiles anywhere in the bible (which should be an enormous portion of the old testament) it says that the "behemoth" or "leviathan" lived with humans which dinosaurs clearly did not EVER live within millions of years of people. weak sauce.</blockquote> scientist believe in evolution, which "millions of years" would fall under i dont believe in evolution, so i cant agree with the millions of years part. i can go into a thousand different descriptions of this verse, but i cant right now. i have to get up in 3 hours to go to work. this is a debate that is a different level completely. we can get into it, but not tonight. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:23:19-04:00 431728 5678 2009-04-08T03:23:19-04:00 This is directed at nobody in particular, but I think it makes some very interesting points. The rest can be read <a href="http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/05/10-reasons-you-should-never-have-a-religion/">Here</a>. "Please tell me you aren’t still practicing the religion you happened to be born into? Surely you’ve outgrown your baby clothes by now. Isn’t it time you also outgrew your baby religion? What if you were born into a different culture? Would you have been conscious enough to find your way back to your current belief system? Or are your current beliefs merely a product of your environment and not the result of conscious choice? Many religions are just a mish-mash of what came before. For example, Christianity is largely based on pagan rituals. If those pagan beliefs and rituals had been protected by copyright, Christianity wouldn’t even exist. If you take the time to dig into the roots of Christianity, you’ll encounter various theories that Christianity’s teachings were largely assembled from pre-Christian myths and that Jesus himself was merely a fictional character pieced together from earlier mythical figures. You go, Horus! Many religious teachers (i.e. priests, rabbis, ministers, etc.) are just brainwashed slaves themselves. They don’t have any real authority and aren’t even aware of the agenda being set by their superiors. This makes them better minions because they actually believe the B.S. they’re spouting and don’t know the truth behind it. A priest, a rabbi, and a minister walk into a bar, but that’s as far as they get. They may interact with the bartender, but they never get to know the guy who owns the bar. They suffer from inherited falsehood just like everyone else." 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:23:26-04:00 431730 1555 2009-04-08T03:27:56-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that.</blockquote> dude, that shit is over your head man, only god can forgive that shit. it is all too human to think that its wrong not to forgive people like hitler or bin laden.</blockquote> Yeah I know, but to say that a sin is a sin... 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:24:54-04:00 431733 1140 2009-04-08T03:25:07-04:00 Yardley, check this out--I think it accommodates your view rather well <a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php">Freethinkers</a> 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:25:18-04:00 431734 3501 2009-04-08T03:25:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Enclothe said:</cite> Is it that time of week again?</blockquote> Better to debate a question without settling it than settling a question without debating it! This is a community full of artists with individualistic beliefs. Of course its that time of the week!</blockquote> Good point, I don't disagree and that's a fantastic quote by the way. Also, I can't sleep so this is going to be fun to read. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:25:39-04:00 431735 1555 2009-04-08T03:28:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Enclothe said:</cite> This is directed at nobody in particular, but I think it makes some very interesting points. The rest can be read <a href="http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/05/10-reasons-you-should-never-have-a-religion/">Here</a>. Please tell me you aren’t still practicing the religion you happened to be born into? Surely you’ve outgrown your baby clothes by now. Isn’t it time you also outgrew your baby religion? What if you were born into a different culture? Would you have been conscious enough to find your way back to your current belief system? Or are your current beliefs merely a product of your environment and not the result of conscious choice? Many religions are just a mish-mash of what came before. For example, Christianity is largely based on pagan rituals. If those pagan beliefs and rituals had been protected by copyright, Christianity wouldn’t even exist. If you take the time to dig into the roots of Christianity, you’ll encounter various theories that Christianity’s teachings were largely assembled from pre-Christian myths and that Jesus himself was merely a fictional character pieced together from earlier mythical figures. You go, Horus! Many religious teachers (i.e. priests, rabbis, ministers, etc.) are just brainwashed slaves themselves. They don’t have any real authority and aren’t even aware of the agenda being set by their superiors. This makes them better minions because they actually believe the B.S. they’re spouting and don’t know the truth behind it. A priest, a rabbi, and a minister walk into a bar, but that’s as far as they get. They may interact with the bartender, but they never get to know the guy who owns the bar. They suffer from inherited falsehood just like everyone else.</blockquote> <img src="http://blog.theavclub.tv/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/atomic-bomb.jpg" /> 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:25:44-04:00 431736 1106 2009-04-08T03:25:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, check this out--I think it accommodates your view rather well <a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php">Freethinkers</a></blockquote> of course i am a free thinker, i hate that fucking club though. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:26:42-04:00 431739 1106 2009-04-08T03:26:42-04:00 I am super proud of the amount of times my name has been associated with masturbation in this thread. Just putting that out there. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:27:29-04:00 431740 997 2009-04-08T03:27:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> Job 40:15–24 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. 16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. 17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. 18 His bones are like beams of ..</blockquote> dude this is ridiculous and you know it. not only does it not clearly say anything about enormous reptiles anywhere in the bible (which should be an enormous portion of the old testament) it says that the "behemoth" or "leviathan" lived with humans which dinosaurs clearly did not EVER live within millions of years of people. weak sauce.</blockquote> scientist believe in evolution, which "millions of years" would fall under i dont believe in evolution, so i cant agree with the millions of years part. i can go into a thousand different descriptions of this verse, but i cant right now. i have to get up in 3 hours to go to work. this is a debate that is a different level completely. we can get into it, but not tonight.</blockquote> well dude, if you have evidence to refute the validity of Carbon Dating lets hear it? and yes, the world can wait till you get off work tomorrow for something this epic. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:28:35-04:00 431743 1106 2009-04-08T03:29:13-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that.</blockquote> dude, that shit is over your head man, only god can forgive that shit. it is all too human to think that its wrong not to forgive people like hitler or bin laden.</blockquote> Yeah I know, but to say that a sin is a sin...</blockquote> you are taking it wrong. sin is sin. if i steal a apple, then i have committed a sin. if i kill a thousand woman, then i have committed a sin. all sin is forgivable. but the bible also says to follow the law of the land. so if i kill all those people, then as sure as hell gonna answer to you guys, but i can still be forgiven from Christ, see what im saying? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:28:40-04:00 431744 5678 2009-04-08T03:28:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> I am super proud of the amount of times my name has been associated with masturbation in this thread. Just putting that out there.</blockquote> you make me proud too. you are so good at both,mental and physical masturbation. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:29:04-04:00 431745 303 2009-04-08T03:29:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that.</blockquote> dude, that shit is over your head man, only god can forgive that shit. it is all too human to think that its wrong not to forgive people like hitler or bin laden.</blockquote> Yeah I know, but to say that a sin is a sin...</blockquote> i believe that you can't really say that. yes you can define what a sin is, and group them by severity. but to say talking the Lord's name in vain is the same as committing genocide should be inconceivable to anyone. the the amount of time it would take the sinner to fully realize what the sin, then repent, could never be meet. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:29:48-04:00 431747 7360 2009-04-08T03:29:48-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> Job 40:15–24 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. 16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. 17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. 18 His bones are like beams of ..</blockquote> dude this is ridiculous and you know it. not only does it not clearly say anything about enormous reptiles anywhere in the bible (which should be an enormous portion of the old testament) it says that the "behemoth" or "leviathan" lived with humans which dinosaurs clearly did not EVER live within millions of years of people. weak sauce.</blockquote> scientist believe in evolution, which "millions of years" would fall under i dont believe in evolution, so i cant agree with the millions of years part. i can go into a thousand different descriptions of this verse, but i cant right now. i have to get up in 3 hours to go to work. this is a debate that is a different level completely. we can get into it, but not tonight.</blockquote> well dude, if you have evidence to refute the validity of Carbon Dating lets hear it?</blockquote> duuuuuuuuuuuude. not tonight. trust me. if you want to AIM this up tomorrow, then im DOWN, but can we wait till tomorrow haha. i want atleast 2 hours of sleep tonight 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:30:02-04:00 431748 5678 2009-04-08T03:30:02-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Enclothe said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Enclothe said:</cite> Is it that time of week again?</blockquote> Better to debate a question without settling it than settling a question without debating it! Good point, I don't disagree and that's a fantastic quote by the way. Also, I can't sleep so this is going to be fun to read. This is a community full of artists with individualistic beliefs. Of course its that time of the week!</blockquote></blockquote> It was written by a Frenchman named Joseph Joubert who wrote essays about morals and religion! <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, check this out--I think it accommodates your view rather well <a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php">Freethinkers</a></blockquote> of course i am a free thinker, i hate that fucking club though.</blockquote> Cheers! Aw come on, you don't enjoy paying money for something you can believe in on your own?! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:30:09-04:00 431749 3501 2009-04-08T03:30:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that.</blockquote> dude, that shit is over your head man, only god can forgive that shit. it is all too human to think that its wrong not to forgive people like hitler or bin laden.</blockquote> Yeah I know, but to say that a sin is a sin...</blockquote> you are taking it wrong. sin is sin. if i steal a apple, then i have committed a sin. if i kill a thousand woman, then i have committed a sin. all sin is forgivable. but the bible also says to follow the law of the land. so if i kill all those people, then as sure as hell gonna answer to you guys, but i can still be forgiven from Christ, see what im saying?</blockquote> nope. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:30:10-04:00 431750 1106 2009-04-08T03:30:10-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Enclothe said:</cite> This is directed at nobody in particular, but I think it makes some very interesting points. The rest can be read <a href="http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/05/10-reasons-you-should-never-have-a-religion/">Here</a>. Please tell me you aren’t still practicing the religion you happened to be born into? Surely you’ve outgrown your baby clothes by now. Isn’t it time you also outgrew your baby religion? What if you were born into a different culture? Would you have been conscious enough to find your way back to your current belief system? Or are your current beliefs merely a product of your environment and not the result of conscious choice? Many religions are just a mish-mash of what came before. For example, Christianity is largely based on pagan rituals. If those pagan beliefs and rituals had been protected by copyright, Christianity wouldn’t even exist. If you take the time to dig into the roots of Christianity, you’ll encounter various theories that Christianity’s teachings were largely assembled from pre-Christian myths and that Jesus himself was merely a fictional character pieced together from earlier mythical figures. You go, Horus! Many religious teachers (i.e. priests, rabbis, ministers, etc.) are just brainwashed slaves themselves. They don’t have any real authority and aren’t even aware of the agenda being set by their superiors. This makes them better minions because they actually believe the B.S. they’re spouting and don’t know the truth behind it. A priest, a rabbi, and a minister walk into a bar, but that’s as far as they get. They may interact with the bartender, but they never get to know the guy who owns the bar. They suffer from inherited falsehood just like everyone else.</blockquote> <img src="http://blog.theavclub.tv/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/atomic-bomb.jpg" /></blockquote> +1000 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:30:29-04:00 431752 7069 2009-04-08T03:30:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, check this out--I think it accommodates your view rather well <a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php">Freethinkers</a></blockquote> of course i am a free thinker, i hate that fucking club though.</blockquote> Same here... What has happened to me numerous times in conversations like this with religious people is that when presented with a question they always answer with, "well, in the bible..." No. I don't want to know what it is in the bible, I want to know what you think. Like you said before, why limit the reaches of your mind to roughly 1100 pages written ~3,000 years ago. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:31:20-04:00 431753 1140 2009-04-08T03:31:20-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that.</blockquote> dude, that shit is over your head man, only god can forgive that shit. it is all too human to think that its wrong not to forgive people like hitler or bin laden.</blockquote> Yeah I know, but to say that a sin is a sin...</blockquote> you are taking it wrong. sin is sin. if i steal a apple, then i have committed a sin. if i kill a thousand woman, then i have committed a sin. all sin is forgivable. but the bible also says to follow the law of the land. so if i kill all those people, then as sure as hell gonna answer to you guys, but i can still be forgiven from Christ, see what im saying?</blockquote> nope.</blockquote> ok: if i steal an apple, then i have committed sin by stealing. if the owner of that apple wants to punish me, then punish me. i have stole from him. if i kill a person, then i have committed a sin by murder. if the law of the land wants to punish me, then punish me, i have murdered someone. in God's eyes, both are sins. but both are forgivable as long as the person truely in their heart has ask for forgiveness. God loves everyone. he hates the sin, not the sinner 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:33:54-04:00 431757 5678 2009-04-08T03:34:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that.</blockquote> dude, that shit is over your head man, only god can forgive that shit. it is all too human to think that its wrong not to forgive people like hitler or bin laden.</blockquote> Yeah I know, but to say that a sin is a sin...</blockquote> you are taking it wrong. sin is sin. if i steal a apple, then i have committed a sin. if i kill a thousand woman, then i have committed a sin. all sin is forgivable. but the bible also says to follow the law of the land. so if i kill all those people, then as sure as hell gonna answer to you guys, but i can still be forgiven from Christ, see what im saying?</blockquote> But if we were christian's wouldn't we know that Christ would forgive them, so instead of giving them a just punishment (kill them which would make me a sinner) we would have to think like someone else and forgive them as well? Damn australia time, i would love to be in this debate chat tomorrow. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:34:47-04:00 431759 1140 2009-04-08T03:37:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> Job 40:15–24 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. 16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. 17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. 18 His bones are like beams of ..</blockquote> dude this is ridiculous and you know it. not only does it not clearly say anything about enormous reptiles anywhere in the bible (which should be an enormous portion of the old testament) it says that the "behemoth" or "leviathan" lived with humans which dinosaurs clearly did not EVER live within millions of years of people. weak sauce.</blockquote> scientist believe in evolution, which "millions of years" would fall under i dont believe in evolution, so i cant agree with the millions of years part. i can go into a thousand different descriptions of this verse, but i cant right now. i have to get up in 3 hours to go to work. this is a debate that is a different level completely. we can get into it, but not tonight.</blockquote> well dude, if you have evidence to refute the validity of Carbon Dating lets hear it?</blockquote> duuuuuuuuuuuude. not tonight. trust me. if you want to AIM this up tomorrow, then im DOWN, but can we wait till tomorrow haha. i want atleast 2 hours of sleep tonight</blockquote> get some rest homie, you deserve it. we will butt heads another time. peace! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:34:53-04:00 431760 1106 2009-04-08T03:34:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, check this out--I think it accommodates your view rather well <a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php">Freethinkers</a></blockquote> of course i am a free thinker, i hate that fucking club though.</blockquote> Same here... What has happened to me numerous times in conversations like this with religious people is that when presented with a question they always answer with, "well, in the bible..." No. I don't want to know what it is in the bible, I want to know what you think. Like you said before, why limit the reaches of your mind to roughly 1100 pages written ~3,000 years ago.</blockquote> Well quite simply it's because they have no alternative argument to present. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:36:10-04:00 431764 12825 2009-04-08T03:36:10-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, check this out--I think it accommodates your view rather well <a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php">Freethinkers</a></blockquote> of course i am a free thinker, i hate that fucking club though.</blockquote> Same here... What has happened to me numerous times in conversations like this with religious people is that when presented with a question they always answer with, "well, in the bible..." No. I don't want to know what it is in the bible, I want to know what you think. Like you said before, why limit the reaches of your mind to roughly 1100 pages written ~3,000 years ago.</blockquote> Exactly, it's really annoying that it always falls back to referencing the bible. I'm sorry but if you only referenced one book in a school report you'd get an F, so what happens in real life? It's a cheap cop out and betrays the lack of actual thought put into a system of beliefs that supposedly guide one's life. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:36:18-04:00 431765 1555 2009-04-08T03:36:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> Man this shit is getting hard to block quote, haha. I am not picking on you I swear, but your making great points that I want to debate! <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> Christians believe sin is sin, but every sin is forgivable. its just something we wont understand each other on. which is fine.</blockquote> In all reality you guys think every sin is forgivable? What about people who rape and kill children? I know they have one of the circles of dante's hell reserved for them but how is something like that forgivable? One would have to think if Jesus or God walked in on a dude raping a kid he would whoop some ass... even Gandhi would throw down for something like that.</blockquote> dude, that shit is over your head man, only god can forgive that shit. it is all too human to think that its wrong not to forgive people like hitler or bin laden.</blockquote> Yeah I know, but to say that a sin is a sin...</blockquote> you are taking it wrong. sin is sin. if i steal a apple, then i have committed a sin. if i kill a thousand woman, then i have committed a sin. all sin is forgivable. but the bible also says to follow the law of the land. so if i kill all those people, then as sure as hell gonna answer to you guys, but i can still be forgiven from Christ, see what im saying?</blockquote> nope.</blockquote> hahah! I've decided that based on this thread, you're a solid dude. If I'm ever in Florida, we've got to hang out like an old man in bike shorts. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:36:43-04:00 431766 7069 2009-04-08T03:36:43-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite>there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence</blockquote> Wait, what? So Ghostbusters wasn't a documentary? I am on the same side with yardly on this one. I do have my own beliefs but some of the beliefs that come through christianity in which scientific discoveries / knowledge of human capacity and periods of time are completely ignored in order to preserve a belief is far more than my mind can wrap around. Not trying to start an argument, but looking for an answer: How is it that people really don't believe dinosaurs really existed? There is so much irrefutable evidence they did, so say they didn't is just ignorant and borderline irresponsible to the development of future minds.</blockquote> i 100% believe in dinos. and i have never read that they didnt exist. actually, the Bible says they did...</blockquote> could you point out where for me? I'm not super familiar with everything the bible says, but I do have one.</blockquote> Job 40:15–24 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. 16 See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. 17 He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. 18 His bones are like beams of ..</blockquote> dude this is ridiculous and you know it. not only does it not clearly say anything about enormous reptiles anywhere in the bible (which should be an enormous portion of the old testament) it says that the "behemoth" or "leviathan" lived with humans which dinosaurs clearly did not EVER live within millions of years of people. weak sauce.</blockquote> scientist believe in evolution, which "millions of years" would fall under i dont believe in evolution, so i cant agree with the millions of years part. i can go into a thousand different descriptions of this verse, but i cant right now. i have to get up in 3 hours to go to work. this is a debate that is a different level completely. we can get into it, but not tonight.</blockquote> well dude, if you have evidence to refute the validity of Carbon Dating lets hear it?</blockquote> duuuuuuuuuuuude. not tonight. trust me. if you want to AIM this up tomorrow, then im DOWN, but can we wait till tomorrow haha. i want atleast 2 hours of sleep tonight</blockquote> get some rest homie, you deserve it. we will butt heads another time. peace!</blockquote> thank ya. laters 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:36:48-04:00 431767 5678 2009-04-08T03:36:48-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, check this out--I think it accommodates your view rather well <a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php">Freethinkers</a></blockquote> of course i am a free thinker, i hate that fucking club though.</blockquote> Same here... What has happened to me numerous times in conversations like this with religious people is that when presented with a question they always answer with, "well, in the bible..." No. I don't want to know what it is in the bible, I want to know what you think. Like you said before, why limit the reaches of your mind to roughly 1100 pages written ~3,000 years ago.</blockquote> The Bible is basically an instruction manual possessing parables that illustrate moral and life lessons. I'm sure if I started to write one, and passed it on over many years...I could pull of something very similar. I am even thinking about having Dobi do the illustrations for me. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:37:19-04:00 431769 3501 2009-04-08T03:37:19-04:00 <blockquote><cite>MainframeMedia said:</cite> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2cmdfoy0v4&feature=channel_page</blockquote> I think he is stupid for assuming that just cause the Pope says something, all Christians think the same way. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:40:58-04:00 431773 7321 2009-04-08T03:40:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Burke said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>MainframeMedia said:</cite> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2cmdfoy0v4&feature=channel_page</blockquote> I think he is stupid for assuming that just cause the Pope says something, all Christians think the same way.</blockquote> yeah dude! and turds are stupid for being all brown and shit. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:48:57-04:00 431778 1106 2009-04-08T03:50:34-04:00 <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Burke said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>MainframeMedia said:</cite> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2cmdfoy0v4&feature=channel_page</blockquote> I think he is stupid for assuming that just cause the Pope says something, all Christians think the same way.</blockquote> yeah, and turds are stupid for being all brown and shit.</blockquote> <img src = "http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/thats_racist_animated_11197.gif"> 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:50:38-04:00 431779 7069 2009-04-08T03:50:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Burke said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>MainframeMedia said:</cite> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2cmdfoy0v4&feature=channel_page</blockquote> I think he is stupid for assuming that just cause the Pope says something, all Christians think the same way.</blockquote> yeah, and turds are stupid for being all brown and shit.</blockquote> <img src = "http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/thats_racist_animated_11197.gif"></blockquote> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHA AHAAHAHAHAHAHAH /thread. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:51:14-04:00 431780 1106 2009-04-08T03:51:14-04:00 PS- i'd like to thank dylanmaker for sparking the debate. i'd also like to thank dylanmaker in advance for all the retarded shit <i>redemptionclothing</i> is gonna have to say when he reads this thread tomorrow! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:56:56-04:00 431781 1106 2009-04-08T03:56:56-04:00 LOL 16599 Post 2009-04-08T03:59:19-04:00 431783 997 2009-04-08T03:59:19-04:00 I am glad this was civil and everyone played nicely. One of the main reasons I enjoy Emptees so much is because I am able to have conversations such as this. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T04:09:48-04:00 431784 3501 2009-04-08T04:09:48-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, from what I gather...you are saying that you can say there is no existence of the supernatural due to the fact that there is no scientific evidence of such entities. Couldn't those who believe in the supernatural confidently say that it does exist because science cannot prove the entities don't exist? I'm honestly not picking a side because I have exercised both thoughts a fair amount and I cannot come up with an answer which is no more than a belief or speculation.</blockquote> in any debate, religious or not, those making extraordinary claims have the burden of producing extraordinary proof. if i say bananas are yellow i am not required to present overwhelming evidence to support this claim, i have, well... bananas. if i however say that bananas are purple, i better fucking produce some purple bananas or else what i say is meaningless. regardless of if i have been raised to believe bananas are purple.</blockquote> I completely understand where you're coming from and you happened to name my favorite food. Although bananas are green and brown as well! I just believe that the validity/non-validity of God/No God is exactly the same. One believes in something that is not based on proof while the other believes in something that actually exists. Faith vs. Fact While faith lacks evidence of existence,fact lacks evidence of non-existence. We have yet to prove the possibility invalid. Love this topic!</blockquote> That's a fallacy. The burden of proof is on the person claiming the existence of god. You can't prove that something doesn't exist. Sorry, I just wanted to hit on that before I went to bed. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T04:21:25-04:00 431787 1555 2009-04-08T04:21:25-04:00 I just read this whole thread. One thing that bothered me was this: <blockquote><cite>levi! said:</cite> I dont base my beliefs off of facts my friend.</blockquote> A 'fact' means absolute truth. This doesn't make any sense at all. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T06:33:47-04:00 431851 7093 2009-04-08T06:33:47-04:00 there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T08:07:37-04:00 431923 9442 2009-04-08T08:07:37-04:00 <blockquote><cite>a killer wombat said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>skull with hair said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Matt Rupp said:</cite> Yardley, check this out--I think it accommodates your view rather well <a href="http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/freethinker.php">Freethinkers</a></blockquote> of course i am a free thinker, i hate that fucking club though.</blockquote> Same here... What has happened to me numerous times in conversations like this with religious people is that when presented with a question they always answer with, "well, in the bible..." No. I don't want to know what it is in the bible, I want to know what you think. Like you said before, why limit the reaches of your mind to roughly 1100 pages written ~3,000 years ago.</blockquote> why limit your mind to anything written by man? ive had this argument with my sister, she doesnt believe its possible for god to have allowed any flaws to enter the bible, even though according to the bible he went right on a ahead and let the first two people on this planet fuck themselves over for listening to a garden snake, and then, he goes ahead and continues to let man keep fucking himself up. so if you believe there is a god, and that the bible is his inspired word, why would it be so crazy for you to think the bible is flawed due to the free will of the men who wrote it, since in the bible that you believe in it tells stories about god just sitting back while we continually fuck ourselves. according to the bible, god doesnt favor any man over the other, so why would he favor the authors of the bible over other men and make it impossible for them to add their own two cents on, just because its his inspired word. that would definitely be playing favorites. if anything, i think god would allow it, to make prople who really do want to try and live their lives according to their god, and his book dig harder through the bible to work out all the contridictions, and such so they can figure out how to truly live there lives well to achieve happiness in the afterlife if there is one. i wish i had the ability to articulate better, i know that nobody is going to understand any of what i just said. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T08:51:56-04:00 431941 8975 2009-04-08T08:51:56-04:00 Chris666, where did you get that information? It's false. Anyway, I just read this entire thread while I was supposed to be watching Julius Caesar in lit class... and I've got to say that I am impressed with the interesting arguments you've all presented. I just want to know why all denominations of Christianity are lumped together to have the same stereotype. I'm Baptist, and I can honestly say I've never heard anything in church about masturbation being off-limits. In fact, even if I did, I would masturbate anyway. For me Christianity is about a relationship with God, not whether or not I touch myself when I feel the need to. Also, with regards to whether or not God exists, it's all faith. I agree with Levi's statement that you just feel it. I feel like God exists and I would never try to deny it. I love my life, and I honestly believe that being a Christian and upholding the moral standards (in dealing with other people, how I regard idiot people, etc.) that are involved in Christianity have played in a great deal. Even if you don't believe in the Bible as the word of God, I would not be able to accept an argument saying that its moral recommendations are ridiculous. They aren't. Sorry if I'm prolonging a concluded argument. I just wanted to say that. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T08:54:12-04:00 431942 12132 2009-04-08T08:58:40-04:00 I would say that the specific doctrine generally doesn't have a huge effect on arguments against Christianity. Obviously, this is not always the case. Generally though, what's being argued against is the bible. Not many divisions of Christianity work off of anything other than the King James version, or that version ported to a modern vernacular. Also, I believe in alot of the morality taught in the bible, and I felt like it may have had to do with forming my character. So, although I do not believe in christianity, I enrolled my son in a christian preschool because I wanted him exposed to the ideals presented. So, I agree with you that there is a morality worth knowing there. I had to pull my son out of the classes though, because the idiots started teaching 4 year olds "the death angel" and "being saved to get into heaven"... So my son who couldn't yet read was already worried for his mortal soul. Ugh. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:05:00-04:00 431955 997 2009-04-08T09:05:00-04:00 Yeah I definitely understand. I don't really believe in Jesus' divinity to be completely honest, but my family shoves Christianity so far down my throat that it'd be next to impossible to explore religiously anytime soon. I guess I mainly believe that the more complicated something is faithwise, the less truth it holds. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:10:38-04:00 431961 12132 2009-04-08T09:11:30-04:00 Too bad this turned into a religious debate. Making fun of the quotes in that website seems way more fun. Here are two of my favorites: <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/efd5fd2fb915136f6dcc8a2228535f61.png?direct" /> <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/041192e6e1e21fa4730e40562f583a58.png?direct" /> Check MATE! Love it. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:17:46-04:00 431974 1027 2009-04-08T09:19:25-04:00 You know what, Kevin? I think that point number four on the first one is actually pretty logical. Stop being so closed-minded. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:19:27-04:00 431980 12132 2009-04-08T09:19:27-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> So let me get this straight, you don't believe in God...but you have 666 in your name, so you believe in a devil/satan? If that's true, then go educate yourself on some religion brother. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:25:51-04:00 431986 8921 2009-04-08T09:26:48-04:00 I definitely can understand growing up in a really religious family. I went to church 3 times a week until I was about 16. About the time I came to the realization that I only believed the bible because my parents told me it was true, was pretty much the same time I decided it was untrue. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:26:09-04:00 431987 997 2009-04-08T09:26:09-04:00 Yeah. Me too. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:27:53-04:00 431990 12132 2009-04-08T09:27:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> I definitely can understand growing up in a really religious family. I went to church 3 times a week until I was about 16. About the time I came to the realization that I only believed the bible because my parents told me it was true, was pretty much the same time I decided it was untrue.</blockquote> 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:30:42-04:00 431991 1202 2009-04-08T09:30:42-04:00 oh this again... i'm just going to post what I posted in another forum. I find it tiresome to argue over... It gets both sides nowhere. Just because you don't agree with someone on their way of thinking, believing, acting, raising their children, etc etc etc... doesn't give you any justification to badmouth and disrespect that (those) other human being(s). I've not once had the thought that someone was an imbecile for not believing in God. In the same way I've never called a person that has a homosexual preference, derogatory names. It makes no sense to me to treat people with immaturity and rudeness. If someone is really interested in where I stand on beliefs and issues, thats fine. I'll answer questions, but I will not parade my thoughts in a 'holier than thou' manner on internet forums. One more time: I find it tiresome to argue over... It gets both sides nowhere. That is all I'm going to contribute to this. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:42:25-04:00 432004 954 2009-04-08T09:42:25-04:00 I don't know if that was a response to this discussion, or the start of the thread, or what. I am sorry that you don't feel like you gain anything from these discussions, and I respect your opinion. However, I feel like Religion, Soul, Afterlife, and everything else this discussion encompasses is one of the most important questions in my life. I find it really hard to NOT participate, because I'm so livid about understanding and learning and debating the topic. Anyway, I have alot of respect for you. It's just one of my favorite parts of emptees that I can talk about anything from religion to lolcats at any given time here. .. Also, I was kind of put off by the thread title. I don't like attacking one way or the other. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T09:55:03-04:00 432024 997 2009-04-08T09:57:27-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> I don't know if that was a response to this discussion, or the start of the thread, or what. I am sorry that you don't feel like you gain anything from these discussions, and I respect your opinion. However, I feel like Religion, Soul, Afterlife, and everything else this discussion encompasses is one of the most important questions in my life. I find it really hard to NOT participate, because I'm so livid about understanding and learning and debating the topic. Anyway, I have alot of respect for you. It's just one of my favorite parts of emptees that I can talk about anything from religion to lolcats at any given time here. .. Also, I was kind of put off by the thread title. I don't like attacking one way or the other.</blockquote> lolcats is my religion 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:00:07-04:00 432027 8921 2009-04-08T10:00:07-04:00 I just think there is a lot of disrespect toward both sides. For the most part this discussion has been civil. In my opinion it comes down to both sides, one that believes in God and one that has no belief... unwilling to 100% "dive-in" to the other side and really search for themselves. Its always from what I've heard, what I've read, what I've been told experience. Not a what I've discovered though my own searching. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:00:55-04:00 432030 954 2009-04-08T10:00:55-04:00 That even goes for those brought up in church, raised all their life in church. There are 10000s of people like that, but they never truly seek out God for themselves. They only go because they were brought. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:02:22-04:00 432031 954 2009-04-08T10:02:22-04:00 I can understand where you're coming from. I am kind of the opposite though. I was a really devout christian until I was about 16 or 17, I had read the bible 7 times. I gave public sermons, sometimes in front of thousands of people. It was a huge part of who I was. Then one day I looked at it objectively, and I just couldn't agree with it. Currently I am studying other religions, mostly just to understand them. It's a big thing for me, I guess. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:05:27-04:00 432034 997 2009-04-08T10:05:27-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> I can understand where you're coming from. I am kind of the opposite though. I was a really devout christian until I was about 16 or 17, I had read the bible 7 times. I gave public sermons, sometimes in front of thousands of people. It was a huge part of who I was. Then one day I looked at it objectively, and I just couldn't agree with it. Currently I am studying other religions, mostly just to understand them. It's a big thing for me, I guess.</blockquote> I'm in a world religion studies class here at school, and its really, really interesting. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:07:02-04:00 432035 8921 2009-04-08T10:07:02-04:00 you but I'm catholic I don't give a Fuck all we need to know is God ,Jesus = Good Devil = Bad 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:08:11-04:00 432037 10727 2009-04-08T10:08:32-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> I can understand where you're coming from. I am kind of the opposite though. I was a really devout christian until I was about 16 or 17, I had read the bible 7 times. I gave public sermons, sometimes in front of thousands of people. It was a huge part of who I was. Then one day I looked at it objectively, and I just couldn't agree with it. Currently I am studying other religions, mostly just to understand them. It's a big thing for me, I guess.</blockquote> What denomination was that? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:10:47-04:00 432039 954 2009-04-08T10:10:47-04:00 I was raised as one of Jehovas Witnesses, but after I rejected that as a religion I attended various denominations of churches to explore. Non-Denominational, Apostolic, and Southern Baptist were the last I services I attended before I decided that I didn't believe the bible from any angle. I actually had alot of trouble finding a preacher for our wedding, as many of the locals refused to marry me given that I was not Christian. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:15:05-04:00 432048 997 2009-04-08T10:15:05-04:00 today in my american national government class (college class, the prof was a fellow at the supreme court. he also served as chief advisor to 2 chief justices i believe) i was told 'no one would argue with the fact that this country's laws were founded on religion' fuckin joke 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:16:13-04:00 432049 1208 2009-04-08T10:16:13-04:00 <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> today in my american national government class (college class, the prof was a fellow at the supreme court. he also served as chief advisor to 2 chief justices i believe) i was told 'no one would argue with the fact that this country's laws were founded on religion' fuckin joke</blockquote> Religion had an influence on the founding of our nation, it's true. Even if you say that we were founded under a more scientific belief of the FreeMasons, it is generally accepted that a Mason must believe in a creator(not of a specific religion). So, I mean, he's not really lying. Also, I think that gays can't legally be married in several states because of the laws reflection of religion. It's certainly not based on an inability to tax the union correctly. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:24:15-04:00 432055 997 2009-04-08T10:24:15-04:00 it's weird how someone can see this article or blog and automatically get a bad taste in their mouth for all christians, as if they think all Christians act this way. Thats a misrepresentation of someone who believes in a higher power. it would be kind of like this. I just found this Tshirt website and I looked through some artists and found this edgil guy. He ripped a lot of his work, so that must mean that all these artists on here rip their work. see what i mean? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:25:22-04:00 432056 9885 2009-04-08T10:25:22-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Well he isnt just a fictional character in a storybook </blockquote> i would like to share with you my very favoritest quote! "The God of the Old Testament is arguable the most unpleasant character in all of fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynist, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." - Richard Dawkins 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:26:21-04:00 432057 1208 2009-04-08T10:26:21-04:00 Yes for god sake man our dollar bill says "In God We Trust" 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:26:58-04:00 432059 10727 2009-04-08T10:26:58-04:00 Why do you guys always define Christianity by the nut jobs you read about and meet? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:30:44-04:00 432061 2961 2009-04-08T10:30:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> it sounds to me like you have picked and chosen for yourself. where did you get your information? to participate in a debate of any kind without any education or having no knowledge of the material being discussed is a big waste of everyone's time 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:31:16-04:00 432062 9885 2009-04-08T10:31:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> Why do you guys always define Christianity by the nut jobs you read about and meet?</blockquote> And this. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:34:08-04:00 432063 8921 2009-04-08T10:34:08-04:00 <blockquote><cite>dylanmaker. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>AndrewOliv said:</cite> two sides to everything man.. crazy serial killer rapists have claimed to be christian. a lot of crazy serial killers rapists are not.</blockquote> <b>i know dude, im just saying. its astonishing that some people really think this way. im not saying all christians are ignorant like this, because i know christians who are very logical, kind people.</b> this is just ridiculous though. <blockquote><cite>DrewGliever said:</cite> "...Atheists have no value whatsoever as human beings (they're not even human, but only inhuman animals), since Atheists are nothing but miserable Liars, Cowards and Murderers, after all, why would anybody in their right mind weep over the dead rotting corpse, or bone chips and ashes (that get mixed together with those of others from the crematory) of a worthless dead Atheist? And what epitaph do you engrave on an Atheist's grave marker? "Here lies the only good Atheist, which is a dead Atheist". What else is there say? Nothing at all. No last words, no last rites, no flowers, no anything." amazing.</blockquote> yeah, that ones pretty ridiculous.</blockquote> the way you titled this post automatically puts people on the offensive, and then when you post that you don't believe all christians act this way was for me a little confusing and sounded sort of like you were backtracking your original thought and words. Thats just what i get from the two posts 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:34:40-04:00 432064 9885 2009-04-08T10:34:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> today in my american national government class (college class, the prof was a fellow at the supreme court. he also served as chief advisor to 2 chief justices i believe) i was told 'no one would argue with the fact that this country's laws were founded on religion' fuckin joke</blockquote> Religion had an influence on the founding of our nation, it's true. Even if you say that we were founded under a more scientific belief of the FreeMasons, it is generally accepted that a Mason must believe in a creator(not of a specific religion). So, I mean, he's not really lying. Also, I think that gays can't legally be married in several states because of the laws reflection of religion. It's certainly not based on an inability to tax the union correctly.</blockquote> while i would never say our founding fathers were atheists, they did not found this nation to be a christian nation. direct quote from 1797, written under washington's presidency, approved by the senate under veep john adams, "the government of the united states is not, in any sense, founded on the christian religion." this was written in a treaty america made with tripoli. i feel as if john adams knows more about the founding of this nation than anyone who frequents emptees. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:35:36-04:00 432065 1208 2009-04-08T10:35:36-04:00 Would you like to explain to me why I can't purchase alcohol on a sunday, since I am not subject to christian laws, or why it's illegal to operate a shop that sells sex-toys in my state? We have laws that reflect christianity, whether or not our nation was founded on christianity. There's no way you can ignore this fact. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:39:30-04:00 432068 997 2009-04-08T10:39:30-04:00 <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> it sounds to me like you have picked and chosen for yourself. where did you get your information? to participate in a debate of any kind without any education or having no knowledge of the material being discussed is a big waste of everyone's time</blockquote> if you say there are no flaws in the bible, ima laugh at you. i can tell you right now, without delving into the old testament because that was not written for us if were to believe jesus was infact the son of god and not just a crazy person who heard voices, that the gospels have to many flaws in them it is absolutely ridiculous. none of the men who wrote the gospels were around when jesus was born, how do they know what happened? all of the gospels are at the very least 5th hand accounts of jesus' birth, which would explain when everything is all fucked up. the gospels are not true, they are merely fictional accounts of jesus' life to fulfill old testament prophecies. im not telling you to not believe in god, i might be, but i am telling you to not believe every word written in the bible. or to think dylan represents the whole of atheists. please dont think that. <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Would you like to explain to me why I can't purchase alcohol on a sunday, since I am not subject to christian laws, or why it's illegal to operate a shop that sells sex-toys in my state? We have laws that reflect christianity, whether or not our nation was founded on christianity. There's no way you can ignore this fact.</blockquote> i realize this is going to be a silly answer, and for that i am sorry, but those laws are not at the foundation of our country. i am not saying religion has never influenced this country, (in a perfect world religion never would) but i am saying that at the core of our nation we are to remain secular. again, i realize thats not the greatest answer, but i dont believe either alcohol or dildos to have anything to do with the foundation of our laws. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:41:31-04:00 432071 1208 2009-04-08T10:45:27-04:00 One time I went to the holy land and Jesus tried to look down my shirt...i fealt uncomfertable....but my ego boosted that Jesus Loves My BoobS!! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:45:16-04:00 432076 433 2009-04-08T10:45:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> it sounds to me like you have picked and chosen for yourself. where did you get your information? to participate in a debate of any kind without any education or having no knowledge of the material being discussed is a big waste of everyone's time</blockquote> if you say there are no flaws in the bible, ima laugh at you. i can tell you right now, without delving into the old testament because that was not written for us if were to believe jesus was infact the son of god and not just a crazy person who heard voices, that the gospels have to many flaws in them it is absolutely ridiculous. none of the men who wrote the gospels were around when jesus was born, how do they know what happened? all of the gospels are at the very least 5th hand accounts of jesus' birth, which would explain when everything is all fucked up. the gospels are not true, they are merely fictional accounts of jesus' life to fulfill old testament prophecies. im not telling you to not believe in god, i might be, but i am telling you to not believe every word written in the bible. or to think dylan represents the whole of atheists. please dont think that.</blockquote> actually, the new testament, mostly a collection of letters to churches in the known world, was written mostly by Paul and John and Luke. All of whom met Jesus and were alive when he was alive. even though it is recorded that Paul met Jesus only once. I am not condemning, but have you actually read the bible? i mean actually studied it to see what you can make of it? or are you just basing this off of what you have heard? once again i am not condemning 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:47:24-04:00 432079 9885 2009-04-08T10:47:24-04:00 <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> if you say there are no flaws in the bible, ima laugh at you. i can tell you right now, without delving into the old testament because that was not written for us if were to believe jesus was infact the son of god and not just a crazy person who heard voices, that the gospels have to many flaws in them it is absolutely ridiculous. none of the men who wrote the gospels were around when jesus was born, how do they know what happened? all of the gospels are at the very least 5th hand accounts of jesus' birth, which would explain when everything is all fucked up. the gospels are not true, they are merely fictional accounts of jesus' life to fulfill old testament prophecies. im not telling you to not believe in god, i might be, but i am telling you to not believe every word written in the bible. or to think dylan represents the whole of atheists. please dont think that.</blockquote> actually, the new testament, mostly a collection of letters to churches in the known world, was written mostly by Paul and John and Luke. All of whom met Jesus and were alive when he was alive. even though it is recorded that Paul met Jesus only once. I am not condemning, but have you actually read the bible? i mean actually studied it to see what you can make of it? or are you just basing this off of what you have heard? once again i am not condemning</blockquote> i have read the bible well over 5 times. i was raised in the church. none of the men were around during jesus' birth, yet they all give accounts of it. i never said they did not meet him, but they did not meet him until very late in his life. i misspoke when i said 'all of the gospels are atleast...", more accurately: "large portions of the gospel are at the very last 5th hand..." 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:50:04-04:00 432081 1208 2009-04-08T10:51:52-04:00 <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> it sounds to me like you have picked and chosen for yourself. where did you get your information? to participate in a debate of any kind without any education or having no knowledge of the material being discussed is a big waste of everyone's time</blockquote> if you say there are no flaws in the bible, ima laugh at you. i can tell you right now, without delving into the old testament because that was not written for us if were to believe jesus was infact the son of god and not just a crazy person who heard voices, that the gospels have to many flaws in them it is absolutely ridiculous. none of the men who wrote the gospels were around when jesus was born, how do they know what happened? all of the gospels are at the very least 5th hand accounts of jesus' birth, which would explain when everything is all fucked up. the gospels are not true, they are merely fictional accounts of jesus' life to fulfill old testament prophecies. im not telling you to not believe in god, i might be, but i am telling you to not believe every word written in the bible. or to think dylan represents the whole of atheists. please dont think that.</blockquote> actually, the new testament, mostly a collection of letters to churches in the known world, was written mostly by Paul and John and Luke. All of whom met Jesus and were alive when he was alive. even though it is recorded that Paul met Jesus only once. I am not condemning, but have you actually read the bible? i mean actually studied it to see what you can make of it? or are you just basing this off of what you have heard? once again i am not condemning</blockquote> Wrong, Paul did not meet Jesus in the flesh. He had a vision. Jesus was not physically alive. Luke, I am sure, did not meet Jesus either (because he did not write about it). 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:55:08-04:00 432085 2961 2009-04-08T10:55:08-04:00 <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> it sounds to me like you have picked and chosen for yourself. where did you get your information? to participate in a debate of any kind without any education or having no knowledge of the material being discussed is a big waste of everyone's time</blockquote> if you say there are no flaws in the bible, ima laugh at you. i can tell you right now, without delving into the old testament because that was not written for us if were to believe jesus was infact the son of god and not just a crazy person who heard voices, that the gospels have to many flaws in them it is absolutely ridiculous. none of the men who wrote the gospels were around when jesus was born, how do they know what happened? all of the gospels are at the very least 5th hand accounts of jesus' birth, which would explain when everything is all fucked up. the gospels are not true, they are merely fictional accounts of jesus' life to fulfill old testament prophecies. im not telling you to not believe in god, i might be, but i am telling you to not believe every word written in the bible. or to think dylan represents the whole of atheists. please dont think that.</blockquote> actually, the new testament, mostly a collection of letters to churches in the known world, was written mostly by Paul and John and Luke. All of whom met Jesus and were alive when he was alive. even though it is recorded that Paul met Jesus only once. I am not condemning, but have you actually read the bible? i mean actually studied it to see what you can make of it? or are you just basing this off of what you have heard? once again i am not condemning</blockquote> i have read the bible well over 5 times. i was raised in the church. none of the men were around during jesus' birth, yet they all give accounts of it. i never said they did not meet him, but they did not meet him until very late in his life. i misspoke when i said 'all of the gospels are atleast...", more accurately: "large portions of the gospel are at the very last 5th hand..."</blockquote> Just because these guys only met Jesus late in his life doesn't mean they couldn't ask people that knew Jesus or Jesus himself. I tend to think about it like this, and let me first say that these are my beliefs and I am not saying anyone else is wrong, nor am i bashing, this is just what i believe, when doing a paper for any class or wanting to participate in any discussion, I must research and study up on that topic. With these men that knew Jesus, it isn't hard to reason that they could have asked those that knew Jesus about him and they could have even asked Jesus himself. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:55:40-04:00 432086 9885 2009-04-08T10:55:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite>no one would argue with the fact that this country's laws were founded on religion.</blockquote> We are not arguing the constitution here. We are arguing laws, and MANY of these laws were founded on the Christian moral system. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:58:09-04:00 432089 997 2009-04-08T10:58:09-04:00 <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> it sounds to me like you have picked and chosen for yourself. where did you get your information? to participate in a debate of any kind without any education or having no knowledge of the material being discussed is a big waste of everyone's time</blockquote> if you say there are no flaws in the bible, ima laugh at you. i can tell you right now, without delving into the old testament because that was not written for us if were to believe jesus was infact the son of god and not just a crazy person who heard voices, that the gospels have to many flaws in them it is absolutely ridiculous. none of the men who wrote the gospels were around when jesus was born, how do they know what happened? all of the gospels are at the very least 5th hand accounts of jesus' birth, which would explain when everything is all fucked up. the gospels are not true, they are merely fictional accounts of jesus' life to fulfill old testament prophecies. im not telling you to not believe in god, i might be, but i am telling you to not believe every word written in the bible. or to think dylan represents the whole of atheists. please dont think that.</blockquote> actually, the new testament, mostly a collection of letters to churches in the known world, was written mostly by Paul and John and Luke. All of whom met Jesus and were alive when he was alive. even though it is recorded that Paul met Jesus only once. I am not condemning, but have you actually read the bible? i mean actually studied it to see what you can make of it? or are you just basing this off of what you have heard? once again i am not condemning</blockquote> i have read the bible well over 5 times. i was raised in the church. none of the men were around during jesus' birth, yet they all give accounts of it. i never said they did not meet him, but they did not meet him until very late in his life. i misspoke when i said 'all of the gospels are atleast...", more accurately: "large portions of the gospel are at the very last 5th hand..."</blockquote> You're wrong about the 5th hand part. The major portion of the gospels were written (as Christian scholars believe through their own research) by disciples of Jesus and focused on the last three years of his life (probably around ages 30-33). Of the 4 gospels, only one is attributed to an author who was not directly associated with Jesus during his lifetime. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T10:58:25-04:00 432090 2961 2009-04-08T10:58:25-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>andrE w. said:</cite>no one would argue with the fact that this country's laws were founded on religion.</blockquote> We are not arguing the constitution here. We are arguing laws, and MANY of these laws were founded on the Christian moral system.</blockquote> You are correct sir. As usual. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:00:58-04:00 432093 2961 2009-04-08T11:00:58-04:00 <blockquote><cite>alexcampbellart said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> So let me get this straight, you don't believe in God...but you have 666 in your name, so you believe in a devil/satan? If that's true, then go educate yourself on some religion brother.</blockquote> the numbers in my name represent the increasing usage of names of the internet its just a number that comes to mind when you realise that there are a lot of other chrises on the web. failing '666' i would have tried '123' etc. doh. <blockquote><cite>Mr.Izzy said:</cite> you but I'm catholic I don't give a Fuck all we need to know is God ,Jesus = Good Devil = Bad</blockquote> thats all YOU need to know. the world has more grey areas for me sorry. Plus those figures are made up. <blockquote><cite>WolfInSheepsClothing said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> there are so many flaws in the bible I cannot believe in any of it. you go to hell if you eat shell fish you go to hell if you have sex with another man its ok to have slaves etc etc then 'believers' pick and choose what they want to believe and try to justify it. you cant keep saying 'that bits wrong but that bits right' then say its the word of god. you are saying that god is wrong. there is no god.</blockquote> it sounds to me like you have picked and chosen for yourself. where did you get your information? to participate in a debate of any kind without any education or having no knowledge of the material being discussed is a big waste of everyone's time</blockquote> In Leviticus 25:42 God commands that fellow Israelites must not be sold as slaves but in 25:44 God commands "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." Leviticus 11:9-12 9These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you. 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:07:33-04:00 432102 9442 2009-04-08T11:07:49-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:39:22-04:00 432138 12132 2009-04-08T11:39:22-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says.</blockquote> <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2021:8&version=31">Yes it does.</a> 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:41:35-04:00 432143 2961 2009-04-08T11:41:35-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says.</blockquote> You are wrong. EDIT: Didnt see Dave's post! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:48:01-04:00 432151 8921 2009-04-08T11:48:16-04:00 this guy relied on his gut, not actual facts. <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6PbDs8G3dZs/Sb1q4pE6D8I/AAAAAAAACmM/CX5qp_JoMVE/s400/george-w-bush.jpg" /> also: watch this !!!!!!! <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2061773048178434620">Who wrote the bible?</a> 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:49:44-04:00 432153 2342 2009-04-08T11:49:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says.</blockquote> <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2021:8&version=31">Yes it does.</a></blockquote> It's referring to nonbelievers... 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:51:22-04:00 432156 12132 2009-04-08T11:51:22-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says.</blockquote> <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2021:8&version=31">Yes it does.</a></blockquote> It's referring to nonbelievers...</blockquote> No it's not. It's saying anyone who does those things will go to hell. Trust me, I know the Bible. If you want, I can link the NASB (which is closer to the original Greek). 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:54:29-04:00 432161 2961 2009-04-08T11:54:29-04:00 <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says.</blockquote> <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2021:8&version=31">Yes it does.</a></blockquote> Neat site! I like how it gives a bunch of different versions. Which kind of brings up a question. The New International Version you linked to includes "the sexually immoral", which can refer to homosexuals given the Bible's context. But, Young's Literal Translation says "whoremongers" instead, which means people who deal with prostitutes. One seems to imply homosexuals go to hell, while the other doesn't. Is it weird that different translations can make this point ambiguous? How do you as a Christian decide which translation to follow? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:54:31-04:00 432162 1027 2009-04-08T11:54:31-04:00 tired of religious folk thinking non-believers dont know the bible or are not well versed in theism. Consider this, those without blind faith, those that do not willingly accept, those that are doubtful and those that question, may have much more knowledge on a subject than you, whom accept without thought or question. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:56:02-04:00 432165 9442 2009-04-08T11:56:16-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Kevin Doom said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says.</blockquote> <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2021:8&version=31">Yes it does.</a></blockquote> Neat site! I like how it gives a bunch of different versions. Which kind of brings up a question. The New International Version you linked to includes "the sexually immoral", which can refer to homosexuals given the Bible's context. But, Young's Literal Translation says "whoremongers" instead, which means people who deal with prostitutes. One seems to imply homosexuals go to hell, while the other doesn't. Is it weird that different translations can make this point ambiguous? How do you as a Christian decide which translation to follow?</blockquote> The different translations came about so that people would be able to have the Bible in an understandable way. Some of them try to put the Bible into words that generation/time will understand (King James, The Message). Others try to stay close to the original language (New American Standard). I tend to follow the New American Standard because it likes to stay close to the original Greek (which are manuscripts, not the original document). And, don't lie... you just wanted to type whoremonger. Ha! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:58:01-04:00 432170 2961 2009-04-08T11:58:01-04:00 <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says.</blockquote> <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2021:8&version=31">Yes it does.</a></blockquote> It's referring to nonbelievers...</blockquote> No it's not. It's saying anyone who does those things will go to hell. Trust me, I know the Bible. If you want, I can link the NASB (which is closer to the original Greek).</blockquote> It's honestly completely irrelevant to me. I have always been taught by Christian teachers and preachers that God hates the sin, not the sinner, and that if you have accepted Jesus as your savior then you will go to heaven. And then all the other sins are forgiven when you ask for forgiveness. Also, that verse is from Revelation, which is about the end of the world and Jesus' second coming. All of his followers go with him and then the rest, the nonbelievers, face the torture and consequence. You're taking it out of context. EDIT: I'm not saying I believe that, I'm just trying to make sure that the reference text is being interpreted correctly. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T11:58:07-04:00 432171 12132 2009-04-08T11:59:56-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> 3. On the meaning of Book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 18:22) Geneva Bible (1560): "Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination." King James Bible (1611): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." New English Bible*: "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." education indeed.</blockquote> Yeah, it says it's an abomination. Everyone knows that Bible does not condone homosexual relations. It doesn't say that all gays go to hell or something. You said that the Bible states that they all go to hell, which is not at all what it says.</blockquote> <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2021:8&version=31">Yes it does.</a></blockquote> It's referring to nonbelievers...</blockquote> No it's not. It's saying anyone who does those things will go to hell. Trust me, I know the Bible. If you want, I can link the NASB (which is closer to the original Greek).</blockquote> It's honestly completely irrelevant to me. I have always been taught by Christian teachers and preachers that God hates the sin, not the sinner, and that if you have accepted Jesus as your savior then you will go to heaven. And then all the other sins are forgiven when you ask for forgiveness. Also, that verse is from Revelation, which is about the end of the world and Jesus' second coming. All of his followers go with him and then the rest, the nonbelievers, face the torture and consequence. You're taking it out of context.</blockquote> Seriously? God hates sin, not the sinner. You are correct. BUT, just because you "accept Jesus as your savior" doesn't mean you are going to heaven. Why do you think the message given throughout the gospels (both by John the Baptist AND Jesus) is "REPENT for the kingdom of God is near"? Repent = turn from your sin and focus on God AND not do that sin anymore. The Bible is clear that unrepentant sin can keep you out of heaven. It's not a magical thing where once you "accept Jesus as savior" you are automatically free to go about life as normal. It should be a life changing experience. One that causes you to love God AND humanity more. That verse is from Revelation, yes. It is not being used out of context, because it is talking about what will happen on the day of judgment. And, that is when people will go to either heaven or hell. It is being used 100% in context to say that those who do those sins without repenting of them will go to hell. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:07:57-04:00 432187 2961 2009-04-08T12:09:06-04:00 Okay, you win. I'm not feeling argumentative at the moment. I just wanted to say that God doesn't hate gay people. I'm done =) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:22:28-04:00 432199 12132 2009-04-08T12:22:28-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> Okay, you win. I'm not feeling argumentative at the moment. I just wanted to say that God doesn't hate gay people. I'm done =)</blockquote> God doesn't hate anyone. But, He does punish/reward people for their actions and decisions. That's what I was trying to get across. No worries! :) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:28:21-04:00 432208 2961 2009-04-08T12:28:32-04:00 just wanted to answer the eating shellfish sends you to hell thing. that, along with a lot of other Kosher laws, where made as a way to set a guide line for healthy living. a lot of the animals that the laws say you shouldn't eat can cary some very harmful things like parasites (where the term "unclean" comes from) 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:43:57-04:00 432235 7360 2009-04-08T12:43:57-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Burke said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>MainframeMedia said:</cite> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2cmdfoy0v4&feature=channel_page</blockquote> I think he is stupid for assuming that just cause the Pope says something, all Christians think the same way.</blockquote> He was simply pointing out the irony of how many completely idiotic positions Christians defend. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:47:50-04:00 432244 12825 2009-04-08T12:47:50-04:00 <blockquote><cite>rabmcmlxxxvii said:</cite> just wanted to answer the eating shellfish sends you to hell thing. that, along with a lot of other Kosher laws, where made as a way to set a guide line for healthy living. a lot of the animals that the laws say you shouldn't eat can cary some very harmful things like parasites (where the term "unclean" comes from)</blockquote> it was made to set a guideline, as in, it was written by man. not the word of god 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:48:15-04:00 432246 4933 2009-04-08T12:48:15-04:00 <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> Okay, you win. I'm not feeling argumentative at the moment. I just wanted to say that God doesn't hate gay people. I'm done =)</blockquote> God doesn't hate anyone. But, He does punish/reward people for their actions and decisions. That's what I was trying to get across. No worries! :)</blockquote> that's what you believe because that's what you were taught and that's what was written in your bible. there are a lot of other religions and belief systems out there that don't believe that way. the whole thing with religion is it isn't based on fact, it's based on faith. nobody can say that their way is the right way because nobody really knows 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:49:52-04:00 432248 4933 2009-04-08T12:49:52-04:00 <blockquote><cite>vinnyg said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>rabmcmlxxxvii said:</cite> just wanted to answer the eating shellfish sends you to hell thing. that, along with a lot of other Kosher laws, where made as a way to set a guide line for healthy living. a lot of the animals that the laws say you shouldn't eat can cary some very harmful things like parasites (where the term "unclean" comes from)</blockquote> it was made to set a guideline, as in, it was written by man. not the word of god</blockquote> i never said who wrote it. and i believe that the bible was written by the hand of man (and therefore is fallible). 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:54:20-04:00 432256 7360 2009-04-08T12:54:20-04:00 like through the middle ages the bibles were written and translated by scribes who were listening to another monk/scribe read off the passages. this is how come some art shows Moses with horns. in copy bibles some one made the mistake of writing the latin word for "horns" rather then "crown". so it read that Moses had "horns of light". 16599 Post 2009-04-08T12:59:00-04:00 432262 7360 2009-04-08T12:59:00-04:00 <blockquote><cite>vinnyg said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>molasses4masses said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> Okay, you win. I'm not feeling argumentative at the moment. I just wanted to say that God doesn't hate gay people. I'm done =)</blockquote> God doesn't hate anyone. But, He does punish/reward people for their actions and decisions. That's what I was trying to get across. No worries! :)</blockquote> that's what you believe because that's what you were taught and that's what was written in your bible. there are a lot of other religions and belief systems out there that don't believe that way. the whole thing with religion is it isn't based on fact, it's based on faith. nobody can say that their way is the right way because nobody really knows</blockquote> My comment was restricted to Christianity, since that is what the two of us were talking about. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T13:08:36-04:00 432281 2961 2009-04-08T13:08:36-04:00 threads like this make you dumber 16599 Post 2009-04-08T13:44:43-04:00 432368 7336 2009-04-08T13:44:43-04:00 if u gay u goto hell. its ruthless but it is what it is. sorry. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:10:30-04:00 432423 9766 2009-04-08T14:10:30-04:00 <blockquote><cite>darius designs said:</cite> if u gay u goto hell. its ruthless but it is what it is. sorry.</blockquote> haha right thanks for the memo God. if you eat shellfish or get divorced you go to hell too. this thread is really bringing out the best in everyone... 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:13:58-04:00 432427 5077 2009-04-08T14:14:31-04:00 <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> seriously 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:14:05-04:00 432428 5077 2009-04-08T14:14:05-04:00 <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:25:29-04:00 432444 6600 2009-04-08T14:26:58-04:00 Edit, let me rephrase this. The idea of religion and afterlife, and the debate about it is important to me. So, I participate whenever I get an opportunity to talk about it with other people. I find it offensive when people attempt to chastise me for being interested in the subject. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:27:11-04:00 432448 997 2009-04-08T14:30:33-04:00 /me waits patiently for answer 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:29:43-04:00 432453 13405 2009-04-08T14:29:43-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Edit, let me rephrase this. The idea of religion and afterlife, and the debate about it is important to me. So, I participate whenever I get an opportunity to talk about it with other people. I find it offensive when people attempt to chastise me for being interested in the subject.</blockquote> Same here, although I usually avoid these threads. Also, what's up ex J-Dub buddy? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:32:44-04:00 432455 1555 2009-04-08T14:32:44-04:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> Edit, let me rephrase this. The idea of religion and afterlife, and the debate about it is important to me. So, I participate whenever I get an opportunity to talk about it with other people. I find it offensive when people attempt to chastise me for being interested in the subject.</blockquote> I am all about the pursuit of ones spiritual needs. I just think in forums like these, the debate is this ridiculous rat wheel just spinning, cause most of the douche bag's comments are just for attention and or they think it makes them cool. I mean really, treating christians poorly has been done to death (hehe) and by douche bags I am not singling anyone out as I have not read any of this thread... I just know they are there. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:35:13-04:00 432459 7336 2009-04-08T14:35:40-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P</blockquote> modus ponen. ..although you have the consequent as the antecedent here..it should be more like If i am right, then they are wrong. I am right. therefore they are wrong. R->W R ---- W 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:35:18-04:00 432461 7321 2009-04-08T14:35:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Kevin Doom said:</cite> Too bad this turned into a religious debate. Making fun of the quotes in that website seems way more fun. Here are two of my favorites: <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/efd5fd2fb915136f6dcc8a2228535f61.png?direct" /> <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/041192e6e1e21fa4730e40562f583a58.png?direct" /> Check MATE! Love it.</blockquote> yeah, the making fun of the quotes, and ignorance was the point, but oh well. religious debate can be fun too? maybe? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:39:24-04:00 432469 8975 2009-04-08T14:39:24-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Kevin Doom said:</cite> Too bad this turned into a religious debate. Making fun of the quotes in that website seems way more fun. Here are two of my favorites: <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/efd5fd2fb915136f6dcc8a2228535f61.png?direct" /> <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/041192e6e1e21fa4730e40562f583a58.png?direct" /> Check MATE! Love it.</blockquote> you sir have the right idea. lets start making fun of quotes. speaking monkey isnt that hard.....ooh ooh ahh ahh. kinda like that rugrats movie. with the song? 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:44:07-04:00 432483 7357 2009-04-08T14:44:07-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Burke said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P</blockquote> modus ponen. ..although you have the consequent as the antecedent here..it should be more like If i am right, then they are wrong. I am right. therefore they are wrong. R->W R ---- W</blockquote> ah yeah thank you sir, it has been a while since my logic class haha. But it wouldn't it be fun in these threads if we had to solve our arguments for logical validity before posting them? *brb making a truth tree* 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:45:28-04:00 432485 6600 2009-04-08T14:45:28-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Burke said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P</blockquote> modus ponen. ..although you have the consequent as the antecedent here..it should be more like If i am right, then they are wrong. I am right. therefore they are wrong. R->W R ---- W</blockquote> ah yeah thank you sir, it has been a while since my logic class haha. But it wouldn't it be fun in these threads if we had to solve our arguments for logical validity before posting them? *brb making a truth tree*</blockquote> Haha, yes it would..I'm taking the class right now..and Am loving it! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T14:53:49-04:00 432497 7321 2009-04-08T14:53:49-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P</blockquote> The line about me made me laugh loudly. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T15:50:20-04:00 432580 12132 2009-04-08T15:50:20-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P</blockquote> The line about me made me laugh loudly.</blockquote> Thats because you're more selfish than a beaver 16599 Post 2009-04-08T15:53:45-04:00 432582 8921 2009-04-08T15:54:01-04:00 <blockquote><cite>alexcampbellart said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P</blockquote> The line about me made me laugh loudly.</blockquote> Thats because you're more selfish than a beaver</blockquote> I don't think I understand 16599 Post 2009-04-08T15:55:26-04:00 432584 12132 2009-04-08T15:55:26-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>alexcampbellart said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P</blockquote> The line about me made me laugh loudly.</blockquote> Thats because you're more selfish than a beaver</blockquote> I don't think I understand</blockquote> It was a joke, but think about what beavers do. They are so rude! 16599 Post 2009-04-08T15:57:38-04:00 432588 8921 2009-04-08T15:57:38-04:00 <blockquote><cite>alexcampbellart said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>alexcampbellart said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>chellio said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>Buck Nasty said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>isaboa said:</cite> threads like this make you dumber</blockquote> yeah I learned nothing new on this go around, hopefully next month's thread will be better. well scratch that actually. Chellio said that in her Baptist church it is ok to masturbate and I have never heard that before at any Baptist church I have ever been to. <img src="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg" /> I want to see some derivations from each side using the rules of logic to prove their arguments. It seems the Christians and the agnostics/atheists/freethinkers don't understand each others beliefs that well. I have been both so I see where both sides are coming from. 1. If everyone else is wrong, then I am right.(W → R) 2. Everyone else is wrong (W) ________________________________________________________ I am right (R) Logically valid argument. :P</blockquote> The line about me made me laugh loudly.</blockquote> Thats because you're more selfish than a beaver</blockquote> I don't think I understand</blockquote> It was a joke, but think about what beavers do. They are so rude!</blockquote> I know! <img src="http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/NorthAmerica/images/LargeBeaverPhoto.jpg"> Look at how he's looking at the camera. Only a rude beaver would do that. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T15:59:53-04:00 432592 12132 2009-04-08T15:59:53-04:00 <blockquote><cite>darius designs said:</cite> if u gay u goto hell. its ruthless but it is what it is. sorry.</blockquote> it also says slavery is ok too. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T16:14:28-04:00 432606 9442 2009-04-08T16:14:28-04:00 All I got outta this was how to spell epitome, and I didn't even have to open the damn thread. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T16:17:55-04:00 432609 9211 2009-04-08T16:17:55-04:00 <blockquote><cite>adamvaudin said:</cite> All I got outta this was how to spell epitome, and I didn't even have to open the damn thread.</blockquote> Hahaha. On new year's I was messing around on a random forum with my friends and was talking about lighthouses... and I said something about "the epitome of my desires" or something. And one of my friends was like "hahaha, epitome!" Except she said "eh-pee-tohm." So I pretty much lol every time I see this thread. Probs why I frequent it. 16599 Post 2009-04-08T16:27:27-04:00 432622 12132 2009-04-08T16:27:27-04:00 <blockquote><cite>chris666 said:</cite> <blockquote><cite>darius designs said:</cite> if u gay u goto hell. its ruthless but it is what it is. sorry.</blockquote> it also says slavery is ok too.</blockquote> slavery is nothing new and it certainly did not begin with the bible, nor did it end in that time. it was a very common practice of the time to enslave or "rule over" the enemies you have defeated. when the egyptians held "God's People" in slavery for so long after they were set free this was all they knew. God stated that they were not to enslave each other because that would mean infighting among his people. which was to no avail because the 12 tribes would split eventually anyways. just thought I'd offer that little bit 16599 Post 2009-04-09T01:57:20-04:00 433320 9885 2009-04-09T01:57:20-04:00 <blockquote><cite>HCCDesign said:</cite> Heres a scientific question for the evolution beleivers. Is it a scientific fact that 'Genetically no new infomation is ever created, it is only lost' Is that a true statement? My teaching through school was that you can’t create new genitic materal. And if that is the case and we evovled from single celled organisms then where did all our genetic infomation come from? I think thats a fair call.</blockquote> Aye, I felt like this was an interesting topic, so I researched it. The short answer to this question is that genetic material is able to Double then Mutate. This supports the ideal of creation of new limbs, etc. Here is a link to the discussion on the Evolution vs Creation forums: http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=5&t=851&m=1 And here is an excerpt of some proven facts which debunk this argument: Based on an adaptation of the Langur Monkey. <img src="http://www.caea-arteducation.org/www/Images/DoucLangur2.jpg" /> <blockquote> It turns out that while most primate species have one RNASE1 gene, the douc langur monkey has two, RNASE1 and RNASE1B. Genetic analysis revealed that the RNASE1 gene was duplicated about 4 million years ago, and that the original has remained largely unchanged while the duplicate experienced rapid change. We know which is the duplicate because it's in a different location in the genome from where RNASE1 gene occurs in all other primates.<br /><br /> And so today, unlike most other primates, the douc langur monkey has two flavors of RNASE1 genes. One is the original RNASE1 gene that carries out the original function of producing enzymes that "digest dietary RNA" and "degrade double stranded RNA". And the other is the new RNASE1 gene that also digests dietary RNA, but much more efficiently for the lower pH levels of douc langur intestines.<br /><br /> So whereas before there was one gene, the RNASE1 gene, performing two functions, one of them not very well, we now have two genes. One, the original RNASE1 gene, is still performing its original function. The other, the new RNASE1B gene, is performing one of the functions of the RNASE1 gene, but much more efficiently.<br /><br /> Bluegenes' other example concerned yeast. The title of the article he cited was <a href="http://www.genetics.org/cgi/content/full/179/1/487">De Novo Origination of a New Protein-Coding Gene in Saccharomyces cerevisiae</a>, and it appears in the journal <a href="http://www.genetics.org/">Genetics</a>.<br /><br /> The article describes the BSC4 gene in Saccharomyces cerevisiae, a gene thtat does not appear in any of its closely related cousin species. The corresponding sequences in those cousin species are non-coding, in other words, they represent what are commonly referred to as junk DNA. But in Saccharomyces cerevisiae the BSC4 gene encodes a 132-amino-acid-long peptide that appears to contribute to DNA repair during periods of starvation. Random mutations in the non-coding area transformed the non-coding DNA into a coding gene.<br /><br /> So there we have two examples of the appearance of new genetic material, one in the douc langur monkey through gene duplication followed by mutation, and another in Saccharomyces cerevisiae yeast through the change of non-coding DNA into coding DNA through the process of mutation.</blockquote> So, feel free to read the discussion there and present your opinions here if you'd like. 16599 Post 2009-04-09T06:31:27-04:00 433454 997 2009-04-09T06:33:43-04:00 HAIL SATAN! <img src="http://forevermuslim.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/satan.jpg"> 16599 Post 2009-04-09T09:28:14-04:00 433562 173 2009-04-09T09:28:14-04:00 Okay, I know that this is very very old... but I would just like to say that the article doesnt reflect the view of MOST Christians. I'm a Christian myself and believe what the Bible says is true. The person in this article talks hatefully to Atheists, the Bible clearly says that you shouldnt ever hate someone. So, this person IS being ignorant not only to people but to God's commandments. I feel terrible how this person has affected so many peoples outlook of Christianity. 16599 Post 2009-09-18T23:42:36-04:00 2536971 33251 2009-09-18T23:42:36-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Throatpunch! said:</cite> Okay, I know that this is very very old... but I would just like to say that the article doesnt reflect the view of MOST Christians. I'm a Christian myself and believe what the Bible says is true. The person in this article talks hatefully to Atheists, the Bible clearly says that you shouldnt ever hate someone. So, this person IS being ignorant not only to people but to God's commandments. I feel terrible how this person has affected so many peoples outlook of Christianity.</blockquote> Put a sock in it, God lover. 16599 Post 2009-09-18T23:48:18-04:00 2537031 7069 2009-09-18T23:48:18-04:00 <blockquote><cite>Throatpunch! said:</cite> Okay, I know that this is very very old... but I would just like to say that the article doesnt reflect the view of MOST Christians. I'm a Christian myself and believe what the Bible says is true. The person in this article talks hatefully to Atheists, the Bible clearly says that you shouldnt ever hate someone. So, this person IS being ignorant not only to people but to God's commandments. I feel terrible how this person has affected so many peoples outlook of Christianity.</blockquote> you believe what the bible says its true? fantastic! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hH1H5qK08&feature=player_embedded 16599 Post 2009-09-19T04:16:30-04:00 2538681 2802 2009-09-19T04:16:30-04:00 religion = fashion. just dont be an asshole or a raper. and youre pretty much golden. 16599 Post 2009-09-19T04:21:33-04:00 2538751 51031 2009-09-19T04:21:33-04:00