I am fully aware that it's a bit stoic, but I am very much attracted to reasoning in my artwork. I have never been as compelled by the completely abstract as I have been by artwork where I can see a clear reasoning and forethought. I find it easier to appreciate a strangely drawn creature from you when I am aware that you are capable of drawing a perfectly fine normal creature, but choose to draw it a specific way. I don't know why, it's just how I'm wired. The way I appreciate other artwork, in turn, effects the way I attempt to make my own. So, I try to incorporate as much thought and planning into my work as possible. I feel like looking at other peoples artwork is like looking at thousands upon thousands of different decisions, and it makes me curious as to what other people think as they decide this from that. Here's a little bit of it: <b>When you're drawing or inking, how do you decide how to vary your line weights?</b> If line weight is supposed to show the order of importance and object has, represent size, represent proximity to the viewer, show tension, show hierarchy within an object, generally help to differentiate different objects on the same page, and still be aesthetically pleasing.. How do you decide what to give and take and throw away? I'm pretty heavy handed on my outlines and I've come to the decision that I'm more interested in accenting the dynamics of perspective than I am interested in accenting my light source. What are you guys thoughts? 2009-07-31T12:15:12-04:00 40 2009-01-06T01:13:17-05:00 true 0 12527 false false 506 997 1 2009-11-21T00:17:34-05:00 1806 I suck at line art. I am of no help... Sorry duder. But I get where your coming from. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T01:21:23-05:00 323293 1567 2009-01-06T01:22:54-05:00 To answer the bold question in short. Take a face for example, a line for the chin, make that a thicker line, on a contour of the forehead if that person was bald, make it thin. Hope that helps! 12527 Post 2009-01-06T01:24:16-05:00 323295 10250 2009-01-06T01:24:16-05:00 <blockquote><cite>Arrow said:</cite> To answer the bold question in short. Take a face for example, a line for the chin, make that a thicker line, on a contour of the forehead if that person was bald, make it thin. Hope that helps!</blockquote> Why do you decide this? <blockquote><cite>ThinkBaker said:</cite> I suck at line art. I am of no help... Sorry duder. But I get where your coming from.</blockquote> <blockquote><cite>ThinkBaker said:</cite> I suck at line art. I am of no help... Sorry duder. But I get where your coming from.</blockquote> I think your use of hatching for tonal value is pretty sexy. I feel clumbsy painting because I can't mimic the lines I can draw with a paint brush. You transition between both nicely. I don't think I'm really asking for advice as much as I'm interested in seeing what other people think about it. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T01:29:01-05:00 323298 997 2009-01-06T01:29:01-05:00 <blockquote><cite>Arrow said:</cite> To answer the bold question in short. Take a face for example, a line for the chin, make that a thicker line, on a contour of the forehead if that person was bald, make it thin. Hope that helps!</blockquote> Do what now? 12527 Post 2009-01-06T01:29:56-05:00 323300 1567 2009-01-06T01:29:56-05:00 Thats heavy man. For natural faces I usually start with the eyes because that is the ruler of the face, There is one eyeball between eyes, one vertical eyeball down will give me a nose placement and one more eyeball length for the mouth. For abstract faces I am going for a composite of different views on the same head (front view, profile, 3/4ths and what have you), so it's just a matter of using the eye twice, and placing the other features in the relative locations. Extra noses and lips. For these I find that a feathering stroke works. What the artwork looks like is determined mostly by what I use to make it. My illustrator drawings look nothing like my sketches or paintings. For tracing I do the outline then work from the outside in, top to bottom. or I fill the whole thing with contour lines to give it some curves. I like to fill every little space with one mark or another. This has the side effect of making the whole thing look like mush, so I'm trying to be more selective about what goes where, I started using a rough stippling for shading and that gets the job done sometimes. I need to work more on a painterly approach. Meanwhile I am trying to get a picture of what it will look like finished and what I need to do to get the blank to look like the picture in my head, so What does cloth look like, (or tentacles or hair, or skin, texture basically) Where is the wind coming from, how strong is it, what side is the dark side, ect. I am just guessing most of the time, one of those "I'll know it when I see it." deals. I like to think of it as having a toolbox with contours, feathering, squiggles, stippling, and hatches. I use what I think will get the job done, all in my head on the fly. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T01:32:50-05:00 323302 506 2009-01-06T01:39:00-05:00 to break it down more simply (hopefully): make thick lines for contours that have weight to them, like under feet, and make thin lines when a contour has light to it, like a top of a shoulder or the top-side of a foot. I decide to do this because visually it provides more impact, the illusion of dimension is there. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T01:37:33-05:00 323308 10250 2009-01-06T01:37:33-05:00 ...also it's fakeness is what makes it a drawing to me. If I just trace real world stuff it will look like a bad copy of real world stuff. I like drawing that looks like people made them. Does that make sense. So I am trying to mess it up just right on purpose. The toolbox approach allows to to be thinking of what else I could do. It is quite rare to get it right on the first try. I also noticed the more time I spend on it the better it looks. I often just want to show it off and get praised for it, when it's not ready yet, and by it I mean drawings. Even "bad art" can be good art. I try to be open minded about what I like and don't like, it's really not up to me to judge. I noticed that vocabulary helps, If you think about how kids draw, the pictures don't look correct, but they include everything they know the names of. The head, eye, eyebrow, eyelashes. Next time you see a kid drawing ask where stuff is. Where are the toenails, ears, pockets, shoelaces ect. you will be surprised how they fill in the blanks. I guess to be simple I ask myself alot of questions. What is it? How does it look? How do I copy it? How do I copy it better? What am I missing? and so on. After a while of this you don't have to ask so loud, it's just going on in the background as you work. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T01:46:35-05:00 323316 506 2009-01-06T01:55:54-05:00 i run many programs in the background. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T02:32:19-05:00 323365 6901 2009-01-06T02:32:19-05:00 How did this get on page bump. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T07:03:34-05:00 323521 506 2009-01-06T07:03:34-05:00 think of it in terms of a sihloweete of an object (since we're working in 2-D).... the line would taper and thin to almost nothing when reaching the strongest point of the highlight..... the opposite for the other side, a darker , thicker line is required to give the illusion of a shadow, or the reverse side of the highlight 12527 Post 2009-01-06T07:53:59-05:00 323546 9598 2009-01-06T07:53:59-05:00 good post Heavy. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T08:02:46-05:00 323548 506 2009-01-06T08:02:46-05:00 oooo, then there's always the distance rule....thin lines make something appear farther away and thick lines make something appear closer 12527 Post 2009-01-06T08:07:51-05:00 323551 9598 2009-01-06T08:07:51-05:00 I'd say study some comic drawing books at first Heavy, I often struggle with this...But I've been looking at some McFarlane a lot lately and trying to study him, somehow it seems to be helping. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T08:32:22-05:00 323559 8921 2009-01-06T08:32:22-05:00 <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/8315f3ff378c3d983d9b7b135c0cf5ff.png" /> Line angle can represent motion. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T08:35:09-05:00 323560 506 2009-01-06T08:35:21-05:00 Thanks for the Kind word brosef! I love seeing your stuff. every time you post something, it's better than the last post. And all honesty, I am trying my hardest to get more simple lines out of my stuff, I have been so trained to do realistic-ish shading, so it's hard for me to keep lines bold and simple. .... Practice makes perfect eh? as far as one of my all time faves in Line work.... Berni Wrightson, check out his Frankenstein book. tha most amazing illustrations in the world! heres a little taste of the sexiness! <a href="http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/theadambaker/?action=view&current=Picture6-1.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/theadambaker/Picture6-1.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/theadambaker/?action=view&current=Picture13-1.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/theadambaker/Picture13-1.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/theadambaker/?action=view&current=Picture12-1.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/theadambaker/Picture12-1.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> And one more... Not Franky, but still, you get the idea of his badassery! lol. <a href="http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/theadambaker/?action=view&current=396073041_46c44c4c68_o.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k139/theadambaker/396073041_46c44c4c68_o.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> 12527 Post 2009-01-06T09:33:12-05:00 323595 1567 2009-01-06T09:33:12-05:00 Good shit Baker. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T10:19:17-05:00 323628 8921 2009-01-06T10:19:17-05:00 The last one is from Sandman. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T10:24:59-05:00 323634 506 2009-01-06T10:24:59-05:00 <blockquote><cite>quakerninja said:</cite> The last one is from Sandman.</blockquote> Are you sure? I think it's from one of the many "House of Mystery" series he worked on forever, although, did sandman start there? I dunno? I know it's a dc title as well. He also did alot of the first Swamp Thing 12527 Post 2009-01-06T10:56:27-05:00 323677 1567 2009-01-06T10:56:27-05:00 That frankenstein stuff is tasty. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T18:27:54-05:00 324269 997 2009-01-06T18:27:54-05:00 I love the purpose and point of view of this blog. it hits close to home for me cause I am trying to get more deliberate and with purpose in my line choices. What I do is not "right" but I feel like I am learning with each piece i do. And granted we also all draw different ways depending on what we are doing. If I am freely drawing how I wanna draw: I start with a 0.7 or a 0.5 and make the general outlines - physical stuff important bold stuff. Then I follow up with a .2-.3 and work it more - adding in the cosmetic stuff, belts, features, etc. then I think about lighting (I know I should do this long before this point but whatever) I Use a brushpen and find my heavy areas, and black spotting - I try and go out on the limb and make some drastic fill here or there - always with logic and reason based on the picture and its world. The I take my fine pens .1 - .005 and go to work hatching I probably use my hatching as a crutch for bad lines. But I love making decisions and having spontaneous shit happen, i use my existing blacks and weights as guides for my hatchwork and continue working it till i am happy Alot of times I lose quality stuff with the hatching but I am still holding onto the benefits of depth and such... but when I am trying to stay clean and crisp - I stat with the .7-.5 then go right to the brushpen for contours etc. I once read this book by steve rude (one of the best inkers ever imho) it was brilliant in the way it explained choosing weights. I am too influenced by old school frank miller and barry windsor smith to drop hatchwork though - I feel like one day I will be REALLY good at it. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T18:55:30-05:00 324312 7336 2009-01-06T18:55:30-05:00 <blockquote><cite>alexcampbellart said:</cite> I'd say study some comic drawing books at first Heavy, I often struggle with this...But I've been looking at some McFarlane a lot lately and trying to study him, somehow it seems to be helping.</blockquote> Yeah, studying artists always helps me out, even if they draw in a completely different media/style. As for lines go I always look towards Charles Burns and Marc Bell. <img src="http://www.adambaumgoldgallery.com/burns_charles/Burns-34WB.jpg" /> <img src="http://images.artnet.com/artwork_images_140610_284022_marc-bell.jpg" /> 12527 Post 2009-01-06T19:07:24-05:00 324338 6433 2009-01-06T19:09:11-05:00 sometimes i sketch very very loosely.. (talkign about pencil or pen here) .. the lines kind of have their own feeling to each one. and im never thinking about why it one line looks the way it does.. it usually just happens and thats when sometimes you can make the most beautiful looking mark. after a rough loose sketch i have some lines that stick out more than others.. i tighten it up a bit.. still keeping some of my first light/loose strokes there but then adding some very fine more precise strokes, maybe following a contour of something specific... then i usually end it after i am satisfied.. maybe throw in the hatching... i think best way to start figuring out different lines try to simplify your marks, yet keep them loose and light and playful... i notice sometiems when people sketch they get real caught up in details right off the bat.. and then they tend to get nervous with making one swift stroke and you see that hairy sketchy looking sketch.. Im not knocking on that at all.. but doing that hairy back and forth sketching really can constrain you from keeping a loose differing mark making... so what im ssaying here is not about a final peice.. but i think when it comes to finalizing something you can lok at that sketch and kind of follow how your marks were made with a more precise way of doing it ( talking bout inking in photoshop or whichever program here). i dont know if this made any sense because i usually have a hard time explaingin what im thinking in words.. but anyway... hah 12527 Post 2009-01-06T19:11:10-05:00 324341 2870 2009-01-06T19:11:10-05:00 I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who spends too much time thinking about this stuff. Napkins - I do the loose sketch thing frequently. My really sketchy design with the skull and axe is a result of my trying to come to grips with the difference between my sketching and inking styles. On some projects I have done a sketch, then a quick digital painting of the shading, then decided my lines with that in mind. More recently I have just been shading afterward. I think I may revisit the technique soon.. not sure yet. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T19:48:11-05:00 324384 997 2009-01-06T19:48:11-05:00 awesome post. 12527 Post 2009-01-06T22:47:33-05:00 324610 2802 2009-01-06T22:47:33-05:00 agreed sirs... very awesome.. i dont think about it much but when you bring this topic up it makes me think about it more and i realize that i do think about it more than i think.. (if that makes sense).. 12527 Post 2009-01-07T00:27:54-05:00 324677 2870 2009-01-07T00:27:54-05:00 I know I'm no authority on this subject whatsoever, but when deciding line weight, I try to figure out what is most important in the image. The more important it is, the thicker the line weight. For example, for the style I've been working in recently, the shape of the object as a whole is very important, thus a thick outline. Take this for example: http://emptees.com/tees/9608-killer-clowns-from-outer-space (sorry if people hate clowns) The outline of the clown is one of the thickest lines... but the lines for the shape of the eyes is thicker because I felt it took more importance that the outline. As an exterior line started moving to the interior (for example, the bottom of the cheek in the mouth area) I tapered the line. This was to simulate depth and also bring down the importance of that specific area. 12527 Post 2009-01-07T13:11:42-05:00 325215 2329 2009-01-07T13:11:42-05:00 this post is so awesome, I decided to bump it. :) It might help someone else out. 12527 Post 2009-01-31T07:36:20-05:00 356003 303 2009-01-31T07:36:20-05:00 i like the new spicy burger. oh, wait...this is a thread about art...well I'll be dammed. only japing, good bumpage. 12527 Post 2009-01-31T08:09:15-05:00 356005 2802 2009-01-31T08:09:15-05:00 <img src="http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/87943-83239-ripclaw_super.jpg" /> When I was a little kid I used to sit around and draw these comicbook covers. The variations in the outline are really subtle, and what lines are there are super-thin which allows for this really amazing detail and definition in every element on the page. It's such a deceptively simple style. <img src="http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6754/190145-109381-ripclaw_super.jpg" /> This one is more a study in black values for really dramatic shading. One of my favorite comic book covers of all time. I will be exploring larger black values in my inking in the future. Word up. 12527 Post 2009-01-31T13:57:23-05:00 356173 997 2009-01-31T13:57:23-05:00 <blockquote><cite>heavyprints said:</cite> I will be exploring larger black values in my inking in the future. .</blockquote> it tickles me that I spend ages sketching and 'inking' a piece and then when it comes to sep'ing i have like this really sparse spalshes of colour and thats it. I need to learn to draw colour on a black canvas. 12527 Post 2009-01-31T14:08:34-05:00 356176 2802 2009-01-31T14:08:34-05:00 But you cannot argue the results. It's an endearing quality of your work. 12527 Post 2009-01-31T15:45:20-05:00 356264 997 2009-01-31T15:45:20-05:00 Some more amazing linework, nearly 50 years old and still looks awesome... <img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/abramsv/SCAsqydo52I/AAAAAAAAQV4/fBb55S3dDbs/s800/2072063847_791aff61de_o.jpg" /> <img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/abramsv/SCAsuSdo54I/AAAAAAAAQWI/mD_aPuyiZZo/s800/2072064457_5607aa2dd3_o.jpg" /> <img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/abramsv/SCAszCdo57I/AAAAAAAAQWk/mR48myug5js/s800/2072854542_3370bdd149_o.jpg" /> 12527 Post 2009-02-01T09:02:30-05:00 356863 1822 2009-02-01T09:02:30-05:00 I personally become obsessed with my linework. My girlfriend says its my curse because I will allow it to stress me out when its not going the way I want it too. Honestly though as heavy said as well. Perspective has always been the most important to me. I hate straight on flat looking views, so boring. When I'm in the sketch phase (which is the longest part of my process), I will discard about 3 or 4 sketches no mater how well they're turning out just because I hate the perspective. 12527 Post 2009-07-31T11:25:20-04:00 1830221 3764 2009-07-31T11:25:20-04:00 See I even tried searching for this type of thread before posting mine...my search skills are lacking. When inking in photoshop/illustrator/manga/etc, do you guys change the line width a lot via the application, or do you usually set your brush once and rely on the pen pressure to do the variations? And seeing all these illustrations is really getting me jazzed to draw something! 12527 Post 2009-07-31T11:31:53-04:00 1830261 11937 2009-07-31T11:32:21-04:00 I use several sizes, but I use the pressure for all of them. I go for a fat 10, for the outline, and major bits, then a 5 or 7 for next level of detail, then a 3 for tiny bits. I also round my edges for the fat bits. 12527 Post 2009-07-31T11:38:28-04:00 1830321 506 2009-07-31T11:38:28-04:00 Pen pressure. I seldom change my brush size. 12527 Post 2009-07-31T11:54:04-04:00 1830461 5738 2009-07-31T11:54:04-04:00 <blockquote><cite>ShirtFight.com said:</cite> See I even tried searching for this type of thread before posting mine...my search skills are lacking. When inking in photoshop/illustrator/manga/etc, do you guys change the line width a lot via the application, or do you usually set your brush once and rely on the pen pressure to do the variations? And seeing all these illustrations is really getting me jazzed to draw something!</blockquote> I personally think Manga allows FAR more line weight control than PS and AI. For the most part I can use a single brush for an entire piece (unless I need a SUPER fat line). My normal brush is set pretty thick, but the pressure allows me to make the tiniest strokes with ease. Frenden is a god among men w/ Manga....anyone who hasn't seen his videos go watch them now....you'll want to draw immediately after. 12527 Post 2009-07-31T11:54:15-04:00 1830471 13631 2009-07-31T11:54:15-04:00 <img src="http://www.grabup.com/uploads/f98edcb05516556bf78199918d9ff606.png" /> Heres a sample of mine. I have got to stop using these stripes all the time, I need a little variety. 12527 Post 2009-07-31T11:59:52-04:00 1830521 506 2009-07-31T12:00:10-04:00 That's a lot of fussing with brush sizes. I wouldn't have the patience for that. 12527 Post 2009-07-31T12:08:09-04:00 1830671 5738 2009-07-31T12:08:09-04:00 I don't switch back and forth, I do everything that needs a 10pt then move down. It's a pain in the ass, it takes me 100x longer then if I just drew it with a pen. I wish there was at least some keyboard shortcuts for brushes. I often wonder if Illustrator and Photoshop are from the same damn company. I know they want to sell 10 boxes instead of 1 but it's retarded some of the stuff that's missing. 12527 Post 2009-07-31T12:15:12-04:00 1830731 506 2009-07-31T12:18:33-04:00